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shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
From the Conservative-friendly Daily Telegraph:



Take that article for whatever you think it's worth. Again, this may be mere contingency plans, but it's still slightly troubling regardless.

The tin foil hat I've got on right now is telling me that there's another rationale for our troop "surge" in Iraq, which has much to do with Iraq in the short run but very little to do with it in the long run. Must be on too tight, methinks.


I think it's rather obvious who these war policies help by altering the power dynamics in the region in you know who's favour while keeping certain things status quo. While true they're several different aspect to the implication of those policies, one state clearly benifits from them, and it ain't the US.


___________________
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Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
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Old Post Feb-24-2007 21:30  United States
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NeoPhono
Übermensch



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: In Orbit

quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
First of all, Iran no where near having nuclear capability for military purposes. Secondly, it's in their national interest to aquire nukes since the sole super power in the world has made it clear that you'd better have a deterant otherwise we'll invade you. Thirdly, I really don't see any reason why any country shouldn't have nukes while the countries which are part of the nuclear club won't disarm their. It the same fucking reason, a deterrant. And they could use one right now.


You're right the Cold War was awesome. Two superpowers on the verge of nuking each other for decades. Let's give every country nukes so we can live in a persistent Cold War state. How exactly do you know that Iran is nowhere near having nuclear capabilities? Did they let you in for an inspection? Are you privileged to Iranian internal documents or sources?

Secondly, world response is a deterrent for the nuclear club's use of nuclear weapons. If any of the current world powers used a nuke, for whatever reason, the following economic and political effects would be devastating...I don't care who it was who used it. Iran, and pre-war Iraq for that matter, have shown time and time again that they have no concern for world reaction. A perfect example is right now. For all practical purposes, the entire planet wants inspectors to verify that there is no chance of Iran developing nuclear weapons. Even in the face of sanctions and military intervention, Iran continues to disregard the requests of the entire world. In short, the problem with Iran having nuclear weapons is both their instability and lack of restraint.

You're also missing a key point; the US wants to invade Iran because it is believed to be in the process of producing nuclear weapons. If anything, Iran having nuclear weapons is an anti-deterrent.


quote:


  • That's complete BS.
  • I already gave the example of Iraq, no WMDs.
  • How exactly has it broken that treaty? And if so, how does that justify and invasion or military strike? And if that's to be a standard response to violation of a contract, and assuming you think that standard applies to everyone, well then, we're long overdue for being carpet bombed the fuck out of. Two wrongs don't make a right, yes. But considering how many treaties we pay no heed to and violate, you can't really use that as an argument against Iran with out being quite hypocritical.


Non sequitur: 1. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence. 2. A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it.

The US and their compliance with international guidelines has absolutely no consequence on Iran breaking the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty. Unless, and I'll say it again, you're arguing that two wrongs make a right and since one country breaks the rules, another country should be able to.

Iraq refused international inspections (a condition of surrender of the first gulf war) just as Iran is now refusing inspections (a condition set forth by both the Non-proliferation treaty as well as the UN). Are you now arguing that no country should be held accountable for UN inspections? Or are you saying that no country should be inspected or required to follow international law or treaty?

quote:
In 2005, Iran was held to be non-compliant with the NPT Safeguards agreement; which is Article XII.C of the IAEA Statute as it had not disclosed it's civilian uranium enrichment program.



Right now a military invasion is hypothetical at best. People can cry wolf at contingency plans all they want, but right now the only facts we have are that Iran is currently working in the field of nuclear power/weapons and it refuses inspection, mandated by both the UN and the Non Proliferation Treaty. People love to look at the US and its faults as a scape-goat for Iran, but this is an international problem and an Iranian problem.

This entire issue would be irrelevant if Iran would simply agree to IAEA inspections as it agreed to when signing the NPT. However, since Iran has decided to go against the NPT as well as the UN, here is where we find ourselves. Iran is the culpable party here. It has the power to ease international pressure and relic this incident to history. However, it continues not to do so, and nothing cited about the US has any impact on making Iran's decision any more acceptable.

Last edited by NeoPhono on Feb-24-2007 at 22:32

Old Post Feb-24-2007 22:16  United States
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
[*]How exactly has it broken that treaty?
[/list]


quote:

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1696 was passed by the United Nations Security Council on 31 July 2006. The resolution, proposed by China, France, Germany, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States, demanded Iran stop its uranium enrichment program. 14 members of the Security Council voted for the resolution; one, Qatar, voted against.

Iran's failure to respond satisfactorily led to United Nations Security Council Resolution 1737, applying sanctions.


>>Source<<


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Old Post Feb-24-2007 23:20  Canada
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Dopey
Palestinian Pornstar



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Ramallah

Iran you sexy bitch, you can break my treaty anytime Yea you like breaking treaties don't you? DON'T YOU?? Yea you want me to spank you hard with some bunker busters and then rub it nice with a furry reconstruction grant. You're so naughty. I love your style Iran.

Eeeeeeeww, what the fuck are you wearing though? That's an UUUHGLY colour yo.


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Last edited by Dopey on Feb-24-2007 at 23:53

Old Post Feb-24-2007 23:48  Palestine
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Dopey
Iran you sexy bitch, you can break my treaty anytime Yea you like breaking treaties don't you? DON'T YOU?? Yea you want me to spank you hard with some bunker busters and then rub it nice with a furry reconstruction grant. You're so naughty. I love your style Iran.

Eeeeeeeww, what the fuck are you wearing though? That's an UUUHGLY colour yo.




Thank you for your contribution to this thread.


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Old Post Feb-25-2007 03:21 
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

Seymour Hersh's latest in Reuters:

quote:
Despite the Bush administration’s insistence it has no plans to go to war with Iran, a Pentagon panel has been created to plan a bombing attack that could be implemented within 24 hours of getting the go-ahead from President George W. Bush, The New Yorker magazine reported in its latest issue.

The special planning group was established within the office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in recent months, according to an unidentified former U.S. intelligence official cited in the article by investigative reporter Seymour Hersh in the March 4 issue.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topN...422219220070225


It goes on further to say that the Pentagon unit was initially in charge of going after strategic nuclear facility sites, but has now been changed "to identify targets in Iran that may be involved in supplying or aiding militants in Iraq."

This corroborates pretty well with what the BBC reported earlier this week:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6376639.stm

But that's not all. Seems a few head haunchos are threatening to resign if Bush decides to push the shiny red button on Iran:

quote:
SOME of America’s most senior military commanders are prepared to resign if the White House orders a military strike against Iran, according to highly placed defence and intelligence sources.

Tension in the Gulf region has raised fears that an attack on Iran is becoming increasingly likely before President George Bush leaves office. The Sunday Times has learnt that up to five generals and admirals are willing to resign rather than approve what they consider would be a reckless attack.

....."There is simply no stomach for it in the Pentagon, and a lot of people question whether such an attack would be effective or even possible."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ne...icle1434540.ece


One has to wonder if 4 or 5 Generals or Admirals is very significant, nevertheless it is more troubling signs.


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Old Post Feb-25-2007 04:26  United States
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Seymour Hersh's latest in Reuters:



It goes on further to say that the Pentagon unit was initially in charge of going after strategic nuclear facility sites, but has now been changed "to identify targets in Iran that may be involved in supplying or aiding militants in Iraq."

This corroborates pretty well with what the BBC reported earlier this week:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6376639.stm

But that's not all. Seems a few head haunchos are threatening to resign if Bush decides to push the shiny red button on Iran:



One has to wonder if 4 or 5 Generals or Admirals is very significant, nevertheless it is more troubling signs.


All I can say is they better have a REEEEEALY precise reason for doing it with no speculation or the backlash is going to be amazing.
I seriously doubt any land forces will be involved; they simply can't afford it.
Unless Iran decides to play ball; air strikes are the way to go.


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Feb-25-2007 08:00  Canada
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M.Johan
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2007
Location: CAIRO ,EGYPT

Now on carrier sucks ,Wat NExt



>Source<

Anyone act like this ,unforunatly i've no images 4Iran acts i think that there'sno irredeem f it's happened and nothing on the surface for any delicating....needing tact or easily offended
quote:
Lieutenant Commander Matt Pothier returned yesterday from Afghanistan having delivered air support to British soldiers. He said: "Right now I have more opportunities than I've ever had to use weapons where we know there aren't any friendly people. In combat that's very rewarding."



STOP KIDS

Last edited by M.Johan on Feb-25-2007 at 15:09

Old Post Feb-25-2007 14:56  Egypt
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Haunted
one scary ass mothertruck



Registered: Oct 2001
Location:

This is an English forum, learn it.

this isn't about America trying to bring down the Iranian people because the US doesn't want them to succeed. If Iran was an ally of the US and the US actually trusted them, then it would be a different story. but Iran can't seriously expect the world to let them have nukes when they're an obvious threat. Peaceful my ass. any religious state is a threat that hides behind fancy rhetoric.


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Old Post Feb-25-2007 16:05  Zimbabwe
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M.Johan
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2007
Location: CAIRO ,EGYPT

Which nukes?
no evidence till now
Thats means that Israel has fancy rhetoric for her nukes
the only one in MEast This's wellknown, Who cares?

Old Post Feb-25-2007 16:21  Egypt
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metalgearsolid
I am a sexist



Registered: Apr 2005
Location: For you neo/

quote:
Originally posted by Haunted
This is an English forum, learn it.

this isn't about America trying to bring down the Iranian people because the US doesn't want them to succeed. If Iran was an ally of the US and the US actually trusted them, then it would be a different story. but Iran can't seriously expect the world to let them have nukes when they're an obvious threat. Peaceful my ass. any religious state is a threat that hides behind fancy rhetoric.

dude wtf?

That is the same reason people hate Americans. Americans view themselves as the owners of the world. So they can travel to which ever country they want to and rather than knowing their language, they have to speak yours. That is seriously bullshit. You fucking twat!

Oh and another thing about politics. Someone can say all the crazy shit he wants to. That doesn't make him possible of ever using a WMD. Regardless of whatever fucking religion he might follow.

Old Post Feb-25-2007 17:08 
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DJ Shibby
Amphoteric Superbase



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Of Earthzen and the Therethen

quote:
Originally posted by NeoPhono
Gotcha...the old "two wrongs make a right" argument. So as long as one country breaks a treaty you have no problem with another doing so? Giving examples of where one country may have broken their word does absolutely nothing to justify another country in doing so.

This is a world problem, not just a US problem. If Iran does make nukes and finds the reason to use them, I can almost guarantee it would be another Middle Eastern or European country that would be hit first. Again though, I fail to see how one country's transgressions gives another country the go-ahead to build nuclear weapons.


No; you missed the point completely, so don't say "Gotcha" if you actually don't get me at all.

Two wrongs make two wrongs, so get off your pedestal and stop using examples that you have no ethical right whatsoever to use.

Old Post Feb-25-2007 18:16  United States
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