quote:

Originally posted by RickyM I love how you fill up your posts with insults to mask the complete bullshit that you are typing. It's called a red herring. That's a logical fallacy, and I won't fall for it. Kid.

I love how you stalk me across the boards looking for me to post in religion threads just so you can puke out more nonsensical BS.

At least PKC is funny and clever, you`re just a tad on the pathetic side.

If you actually knew what a Red Herring was, you`d know that I hadnt actually changed the subject at all. You insulted me, I insulted you back. Your subject was of an insulting nature so I complimented it rather nicely.

Go take a philosophy course and or gain some brain cells, and don`t stalk me anymore please, it stopped being flattering a while ago.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Alex I love how you stalk me across the boards looking for me to post in religion threads just so you can puke out more nonsensical BS. At least PKC is funny and clever, you`re just a tad on the pathetic side. If you actually knew what a Red Herring was, you`d know that I hadnt actually changed the subject at all. You insulted me, I insulted you back. Your subject was of an insulting nature so I complimented it rather nicely. Go take a philosophy course and or gain some brain cells, and don`t stalk me anymore please, it stopped being flattering a while ago.

Don't flatter yourself, I got this link from the Chill Out Room. I just happened to notice this particular post of yours, and thought I'd give you my opinion on it.

A red herring is a diversionary tactic, in this case you are insulting me rather than explaining why that post of yours is not a load of shite as I said. I suppose you could call it an ad hominem attack, but either way you dodged the issue.

I'm glad I came to this thread, as that load of shit about your god that you posted is one of the funniest and most tragic things I've read in a while...if I need to get some brain cells, then you need to get something between your ears other than fresh air. Kid.

___________________
Signature Suspended as it was deemed offensive

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM Don't flatter yourself, I got this link from the Chill Out Room. I just happened to notice this particular post of yours, and thought I'd give you my opinion on it. A red herring is a diversionary tactic, in this case you are insulting me rather than explaining why that post of yours is not a load of shite as I said. I suppose you could call it an ad hominem attack, but either way you dodged the issue. I'm glad I came to this thread, as that load of shit about your god that you posted is one of the funniest and most tragic things I've read in a while...if I need to get some brain cells, then you need to get something between your ears other than fresh air. Kid.

Is that you outside my window... Come on man, enough is enough. Why does this topic get you so riled up anyway.

Sorry I cant use question marks because my keyboard switched to french mode and wont switch back.

___________________

Oh and as for your comment about PKC...you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

___________________
Signature Suspended as it was deemed offensive

quote:

Originally posted by Alex Is that you outside my window... Come on man, enough is enough. Why does this topic get you so riled up anyway. Sorry I cant use question marks because my keyboard switched to french mode and wont switch back.

It doesn't get me riled up...I'm just bored at the minute. By the way, for someone who doesn't want to be 'stalked', you're replying pretty quickly
I think you protest too much

___________________
Signature Suspended as it was deemed offensive

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM Oh and as for your comment about PKC...you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

Thanks... I guess...

Moral Hazard chooses to give the people a lesson, I dont see the point when it comes to people like Capitalizt. It just doesnt work over the internet.

I think Lira, if he were around, would come to my defense about being a ``shit version of Moral Hazard`` though, especially after the pages of debates between Renegade and I that went on for quite some time.

I just choose my battles. In a thread like this with lots of Dawkins fan boys I decided to just give very basic explanations of stuff where as Moral decided to really get into it.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Alex Thanks... I guess... Moral Hazard chooses to give the people a lesson, I dont see the point when it comes to people like Capitalizt. It just doesnt work over the internet. I think Lira, if he were around, would come to my defense about being a ``shit version of Moral Hazard`` though, especially after the pages of debates between Renegade and I that went on for quite some time. I just choose my battles. In a thread like this with lots of Dawkins fan boys I decided to just give very basic explanations of stuff where as Moral decided to really get into it.

Well there you go then...you have a new line for a sig / avatar!

___________________
Signature Suspended as it was deemed offensive

quote:

Labeling something as brainwashing is the most retarded tactic that could possibly be used. It`s a loaded statement, because regardless what answer I give it helps to prove your point.

So you admit that whatever you say to defend your nonsensical statements will confirm that you are indeed brainwashed.
Thanks for admitting it.

Last edited by Capitalizt on Apr-14-2009 at 09:26

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM Oh and as for your comment about PKC...you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

While I appreciate the kind words I believe that Alex does bring something a little different to the table then I do... I also believe that you are in no way just a poor copy of PKC. Reading the exchanges between the two of you really goes to show how personality conflicts shape discussions though, as you and I have civil conversations on similar topics and Alex and PKCs dealings are normally rather congenial.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

quote:

Originally posted by Alex Moral Hazard chooses to give the people a lesson, I dont see the point when it comes to people like Capitalizt. It just doesnt work over the internet.

As an aside, I would just like to say that I am very grateful to both Moral Hazard and yourself (sometimes ) for humouring us heathens in the ways of high religion. It can't be easy to wade into a room full of frothing elitists with a predisposition to disagree with your every word, much less know that you shall likely never get them to see your side entirely.

Though I don't think it's possible to 'make believers' out of anyone here (I know full well that was never your intent), I can say that my arguments are never with the intent to persuade you out of your beliefs - nor even test them, really - but to expose them for the greater understanding of people who have entirely different notions of the world - myself being at the top of that list.

What I do find of interest, however, is the fact that both yourself and Moral are from Canada (or live there, at least... right?). I've never lived in Canada before, but I would imagine that the church has a very different role there than in the United States. I mention this merely due to the fact that I have never seen a religious American make an even remotely cogent argument to represent his or her faith/religion. And trust me, Americans feel the need to open their traps when they feel strongly about something. Could this be for the same reason that I despise the church in my country? The enormous Christian lobby in the US deserves much of the hatred it gets - if you ask me, obviously - but I cannot help but wonder how this skews how religion is viewed in general...

quote:

I think Lira, if he were around, would come to my defense about being a ``shit version of Moral Hazard`` though, especially after the pages of debates between Renegade and I that went on for quite some time.

Yeah, but Lira was a bored Buddhist with a hemophilic heart.

quote:

In a thread like this with lots of Dawkins fan boys I decided to just give very basic explanations of stuff where as Moral decided to really get into it.

You're usually the first person in a thread to mention Dawkins' name. Do the icons you suppose people to flock to really bother you so deeply? Or are you just poking at the sceptics? I blame you for neither.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On As an aside, I would just like to say that I am very grateful to both Moral Hazard and yourself (sometimes ) for humouring us heathens in the ways of high religion. It can't be easy to wade into a room full of frothing elitists with a predisposition to disagree with your every word, much less know that you shall likely never get them to see your side entirely. Though I don't think it's possible to 'make believers' out of anyone here (I know full well that was never your intent), I can say that my arguments are never with the intent to persuade you out of your beliefs - nor even test them, really - but to expose them for the greater understanding of people who have entirely different notions of the world - myself being at the top of that list. What I do find of interest, however, is the fact that both yourself and Moral are from Canada (or live there, at least... right?). I've never lived in Canada before, but I would imagine that the church has a very different role there than in the United States. I mention this merely due to the fact that I have never seen a religious American make an even remotely cogent argument to represent his or her faith/religion. And trust me, Americans feel the need to open their traps when they feel strongly about something. Could this be for the same reason that I despise the church in my country? The enormous Christian lobby in the US deserves much of the hatred it gets - if you ask me, obviously - but I cannot help but wonder how this skews how religion is viewed in general...

Thank you for the kind words.

With regard to the last paragraph; I think the fact that both Alex and I are Canadian has less to do with our offering more reasoned positions/arguments then you're used to hearing from Christians then does the fact that we are Roman Catholics. The majority of Christians in the US (especially the vocal ones) come from the Evangelical sects, which tend to take a more literal view of the bible. Unfortunately, for people that take a literal view of the bible the only justification they need for many things is "God says so" or "it's in the bible." These fundamentalist type sects actually teach their adherents not to question what they are taught by their pastors and not to question what is written in the bible (often accompanied by the assertion that questioning God is the height of arrogance, which is vanity, which is a sin). This is a marked departure from Roman Catholicism, which teaches that faith should be challenged, examined, scrutinized, and must hold to reason in order to be considered divine (as God is governed by reason... governed being a very sloppy word choice but I cannot think of anything better right now). The RC commitment to this is so strong that the Vatican employs a great many people to constantly examine and scrutinize elements of the faith against the best information currently available (science, historical records/documents, archeological findings, etc.), to test historical church positions against the theological support, and spends an incredible amount of time and effort trying to disprove reported miracles (both current and historic). It shouldn't be surprising that you would see more reasoned and rational positions/arguments from Alex and I as our tradition teaches us to fully understand and test our faith whereas the traditions of the large and vocal "Christian Lobby" in the US teaches them that the Bible (arguably one of the most complex and difficult to understand collection of books ever compiled) should be taken at it's face value and not questioned.

While I cannot support hating the Christian Lobby in the US, I do agree that they are really their own worst enemy and do far more to denigrate the faith then build it. Sure, they amass great membership numbers, put on a good show (they are very entertaining), and convert a great many people; however, their members are members in a community group styled as Christian rather then in the church, their show is all about filling the seats as opposed to the soul, and they are converting people to a shallow and largely empty facsimile of the faith. The great success of the Evangelical movement in the US is really a great failure of the Christian faith IMO, as blindly following what the charismatic guy in the flashy suit at the front of the arena tells you about God doesn't lead you to truth, fulfillment, or understanding... it distracts you from it. God isn't found in the bright lights, excitement, and noise of an arena full of unquestioning devotees; he is found in the still and quiet of peaceful reflection and contemplation.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt So you admit that whatever you say to defend your nonsensical statements will confirm that you are indeed brainwashed. Thanks for admitting it.

Oh dear.



To Halcyon:

I think I secretly have a crush on Dawkins, it's why I keep mentioning him

As far as the Church and lobbying power is concerned, well, the fact is the 80 million or so Christians in the USA that identify themselves as Evangelical can be very vocal and militant. In fact what they are trying to do is in many regards at odds with scripture in the sense that they are trying to rally the politicians instead of the people.

In many senses that militant wing of politically active Christians enjoys it's fringe status and benefits from it immensely. If the Evangelicals and fundamentalists wanted they could go out on a massive nation wide campaign and recruit tens of millions of supporters because of how aggressive and determined they are, but instead they choose to focus on politics. Politics politics politics. They want to influence those who don't believe in what they believe in, and don't seem too concerned in making them Christians either.

It has always been my belief that if they wanted to succeed, they should start from the bottom and move their way up. That way there would be absolutely no need for them to have this massive political influence and to be pissing everybody off all the time. They should focus more on the American people, use a lot more of that money and do tons of charity work etc, and influence people that way instead of trying to legislate everyone into the faith.

In Canada it's simply a different story. In my province, Quebec, which as you may or may not know has a majority French speaking population (and therefore Roman Catholic), being Catholic played an IMMENSE role in politics and every aspect of a Quebecor's life until Vatican II, and more realistically I'd say about 20 years ago. The entire province was controlled by the Church pretty much and they got up to some bad stuff. Our Arch Bishop used to parade around like a prince and basically if you wanted to get elected as Premier here (Governor) you had to be Catholic no doubt about it. The French Catholic Church here was quite simply a whore and I thank God that things have seriously changed around here. It is unfortunate that many French churches here are now quite empty, but they have noticed a growing trend lately so I hope things have gotten a bit better. It's like night and day in Quebec now, the Church no longer has much influence at all and unsurprisingly it's gaining respect again.

As for the rest of Canada, I am mostly unsure. I believe I remember reading that Catholics are the largest single Church in the country, but that Canada is in fact a protestant nation because of all the protestant churches amounting to more than the Catholic contingency. As far as influencing Canadian politics, well, I cant say that I see it in a day to day basis at all. One of the largest Churches in Canada is the United Church and they are in fact quite liberal and don't seem to complain much about anything. Catholics in Quebec at least, like in the USA, tend to be working class to upper middle class types, and again remain quite reserved about bringing their faith into their politics.

Something else to note is that as Canadians, we automatically hate and despise our elected officials the moment after they are elected, I imagine that plays a big role as well.

___________________