D flat minor is the same chord as C sharp minor. They are exactly the same just two different names for the same thing. Keep in mind that it can only be a minor if it's a chord. To create a minor you need a combination of notes but the root will always be the first note i.e. C# / Db.

Cheers
Nem

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quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 D flat minor is the same chord as C sharp minor.

Dear Nemesis,

If the D flat minor is the same chord as C sharp minor, then why is it that on the camelot system its not the same Eg : (5A) & (12A)

(5A) is D flat minor
(12A) is C minor

quote:

They are exactly the same just two different names for the same thing. Keep in mind that it can only be a minor if it's a chord. To create a minor you need a combination of notes but the root will always be the first note i.e. C# / Db..

I dont understand, so you are saying that pressing the C# key alone is not enough if i find that the track belongs to the C# note?


Elliot

"(5A) is D flat minor
(12A) is C minor"

D flat = Db = C#
C = Well, C... Not C#

D flat means "the key below/to the left of D" which is C#.

When I key tunes I usually play the melody and find out what keys I use. Also keying the bassline helps a lot, especially the first note of the bassline that in at least 75% of the cases is the correct key.

Hi Guys..

Can anyone tell me the keys of the following....? *i dont know about keys major/minors*

Sam Sharp - Twister
Brooklyn Bounce - Crazy
Alphazone - Revelation
Pervading Call - Destiny
Chemistry - Desire
Megara Vs DJ Lee - Human Nature
Nightfly - Desire
Yoji Biomehanika - Hardhouse Raver

Can u tell me by IE: 1A.. 2B etc.. so it is easier to understand hehe

BTW how can the same song with different remixes have different keys??? i thought they have the same bassline??? *confused*

THNX hehe

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quote:

Originally posted by Jarjar "(5A) is D flat minor (12A) is C minor" D flat = Db = C# C = Well, C... Not C# D flat means "the key below/to the left of D" which is C#. When I key tunes I usually play the melody and find out what keys I use. Also keying the bassline helps a lot, especially the first note of the bassline that in at least 75% of the cases is the correct key.

Basically what Jarjar said, but 5a = C minor and 12a is C# minor (which is the same as Db minor).

quote:

I dont understand, so you are saying that pressing the C# key alone is not enough if i find that the track belongs to the C# note?

Well kinda, pressing just one key will definately give you the root of the key but will not be enough to tell you if it's a major or minor key. For that you need to learn how to play chords. Once you get good at it you will be able to hear if it's major or minor before you even try to key it up.

Cheers
Nem

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Dinz Hi Guys.. Can anyone tell me the keys of the following....? *i dont know about keys major/minors* Sam Sharp - Twister Brooklyn Bounce - Crazy Alphazone - Revelation Pervading Call - Destiny Chemistry - Desire Megara Vs DJ Lee - Human Nature Nightfly - Desire Yoji Biomehanika - Hardhouse Raver Can u tell me by IE: 1A.. 2B etc.. so it is easier to understand hehe BTW how can the same song with different remixes have different keys??? i thought they have the same bassline??? *confused* THNX hehe

Hey Dinz,

The only one I can remember off the top of my head is Sam Sharp - Twister which goes in E minor (9a)

Remixes can be in all sorts of different keys. In some cases they may have actually been given the midi file and just edited it. Quite easy. Or alternatively they might find it easier playing the melody on a different place on the keyboard so it's easier to work with.
The reason can be whatever even the fact that might just have thought it sounded better at the time.

Cheers
Nem

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quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Basically what Jarjar said, but 5a = C minor and 12a is C# minor (which is the same as Db minor)

Hi,

you mean C minor and C# minor is not the same? ... where is the C minor then? Please illustrate using the keyboard pictured above

Last edited by raveanddie on Oct-20-2004 at 14:20

quote:

Originally posted by raveanddie Hi, you mean C minor and C# minor is not the same? ... where is the C minor then? Please illustrate using the keyboard pictured above

There is no C minor on the keyboard. To make a C minor you have to press three keys on the keyboard. C minor is a chord not a single note. You would have to press the C Eb G keys to make a chord of C minor.

A C minor is basically in the root of C but it's just the other notes that decide if it has a major or minor sound. Major tends to be a little more up beat whereas a minor sounds a little more emotional.

Cheers
Nem

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https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

Just checking to see if this works!

Hey guys,
Good to see so many harmonic mixers. I am a bit of a fanatic when it comes to this! I have keyed over 700-1000 trance/progressive tunes. I play the guitar which makes it very easy! Anybody wanting any keys then I'll gladly help, or if you give me a sample then I will key it for you.
Trance is easy to key after a bit of practise. 99% is in a minor key, and the key is almost always the first bass note (also in the outro).
For example Sam Sharp - Deep is Bb minor. Bb note throughout. It is sometimes difficult to tell if it only has one note throughout and no chord sequences, as it could be minor or major, but in the case of Deep(and In-Deep)there is a small passage where several notes fit the Bb minor scale. Other tunes may have several chords (most trance tunes have say 3 or 4 chords, all very basic chords and are the most common ones to fit that particular scale)(see the camelot system above for whatchords go with what key i.e. in A minor, the common chords are C, F, G, E minor, D minor and of course A minor) You can occassionally get a chord thatmay appear out of key, e.g Motorcycle - As the rush comes has a nice little E chord in there.

Some recent tunes:
Ferry Corsten - Sweet Sorrow (thrillseekers) C minor
Whiteroom - Whiteroom C minor
MK-S - Fallback A minor
B4 - Onde F# minor
Miro - By Your Side A minor
Alucard - Eyes of a perfect stranger Bb minor
Critical 7 - Lost Eb minor
Rio Addicts - Crossroads G minor
Alucard - Lighthouse C# minor
Sonar Methods - Echoing waves (original) C minor (Nickson) E minor

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 There is no C minor on the keyboard. To make a C minor you have to press three keys on the keyboard. C minor is a chord not a single note. You would have to press the C Eb G keys to make a chord of C minor.

So you are saying that i should press the C major, Db and G major all at the same time to get C minor.

quote:

[i]A C minor is basically in the root of C but it's just the other notes that decide if it has a major or minor sound. Major tends to be a little more up beat whereas a minor sounds a little more emotional.

In this case, how did you actually get the three keys. Is it true that i have to count 3 keys and 7keys from the root note to get the chord. And i would have to press ALL three keys at the same time?

Let me see if i get this right. To get chords, these are the combinations

A minor = A + C + E
B minor = B + D + Gb
C minor = C + Db + G
D minor = D + F + A
E minor = E + G + B
F minor = F + Ab + C
G minor = G + Bb + D

but whats strange is that the method used in mixshare..com is like this

method 3 - by chords
it is often easier to hear if a chord is out of key, and not just a single note. play various major or minor chords until you find one that sounds good. the goal is to make sure the sub dominant and dominant chords also are in key. if an E major chord sounds good, play the A and B major chords, do they sound better? the relative minor chord, C# minor, should also blend in. play around until you find the optimal 3 chords. once you have found the root chord, for instance, D major, to determine whether the scale is D major or the relative B minor (which has the same notes), play the sub dominant (5 half-steps) and dominant (7 half-steps) notes relative to each root note. for example, for D major play G and A. for B minor play E and F#/Gb. which pairs of notes sound best?

So who is correct? that method is using the 5th and the 7th key, whereas yours is the 3th and the 7th key

Also, what is A flat major, B flat major and so forth. I suppose A major and A flat major is not the same key?


Please help

Last edited by raveanddie on Oct-21-2004 at 03:12

quote:

Originally posted by Kev Boy Hey guys, Good to see so many harmonic mixers. I am a bit of a fanatic when it comes to this! I have keyed over 700-1000 trance/progressive tunes. I play the guitar which makes it very easy! Anybody wanting any keys then I'll gladly help, or if you give me a sample then I will key it for you. Trance is easy to key after a bit of practise. 99% is in a minor key, and the key is almost always the first bass note (also in the outro). For example Sam Sharp - Deep is Bb minor. Bb note throughout. It is sometimes difficult to tell if it only has one note throughout and no chord sequences, as it could be minor or major, but in the case of Deep(and In-Deep)there is a small passage where several notes fit the Bb minor scale. Other tunes may have several chords (most trance tunes have say 3 or 4 chords, all very basic chords and are the most common ones to fit that particular scale)(see the camelot system above for whatchords go with what key i.e. in A minor, the common chords are C, F, G, E minor, D minor and of course A minor) You can occassionally get a chord thatmay appear out of key, e.g Motorcycle - As the rush comes has a nice little E chord in there. Some recent tunes: Ferry Corsten - Sweet Sorrow (thrillseekers) C minor Whiteroom - Whiteroom C minor MK-S - Fallback A minor B4 - Onde F# minor Miro - By Your Side A minor Alucard - Eyes of a perfect stranger Bb minor Critical 7 - Lost Eb minor Rio Addicts - Crossroads G minor Alucard - Lighthouse C# minor Sonar Methods - Echoing waves (original) C minor (Nickson) E minor Cheers

Hey Kev Boy,

Just curious what you got Motorcycle down as? I only played Armin's version which I had a Bm. Which worked for me (I know that the E and B notes are very compatible as they actually go together to make a power chord on the guitar. Used to play guitar too. )

As far as I'm concerned, harmonic mixing is the only way to work. I hate hearing DJs who don't do it, it just sounds so rough.

Cheers
Nem

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