quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, it's pretty simple why they believe so. Because of the environment they were raised in. Ask yourself, if you were raised in a muslim country and instructed to read kuran and if you were told it's the only truth, would you believe in bible? The simple and most likely answer is no. Now, why did the christians from that area of the world accept Muhammed's teachings in the first place? Well, although the large cities were mostly christian, the local arab nomadic tribes still had a pagan polytheistic religion. Muhammed basically merged the two religions and created a new monotheistic religion with many elements of the arab beliefs and rituals. It was a rather agressive belief system, but acceptable to both parties, and it resulted in Muhammed's forces conquering many arabic lands. The expansion to the north was temporarily ended by Charlemagne and the Byzantine empire (East Roman empire). Arabic lands were pacified for a while, until Turks came. They were also a nomadic pagan tribe and they adopted islam very quickly. They started a rapid expansion and among other things conquered the Byzantine empire. They also closed the trade routes and imposed severe taxes on silk, so the europeans were forced to circumnavigate Turkey. Hence the european naval expansion and the discovery of america. Heh, I got carried away a bit, but there's your history lesson for the day

Wow color me impressed! I swear I've learned more in my last few years on history than I ever did in my 20+ years of education. I guess interest comes with age for me or something

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Well, I hope they'll find out what's wrong and that you'll be better soon.

As do I. I sincerely hope you are able to use all resources possible. Find an answer, treat the cause, and get better ASAP.

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quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, if you think the bible is true, then it is obvious that kuran isn't, since they are contradicting on many issues. But if you want to read kuran, you can check out:http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.html. It's the same site that pointed out problems in the bible, but it does contain the whole kuran. I guess you won't have many objections to them bashing kuran, and if you do, just read the verses without reading the sidenotes, as the verses are correct. Besides, it's not very long either, not nearly as long as the bible.

Yes, that's true that they are contradicting on many issues. (I'll be sure to check the link tonight.)
Well,I don't think it's right to be bashing something like that. The Kuran is important to Muslims,Just as the Bible is to Christians.

quote:

Well, it's pretty simple why they believe so. Because of the environment they were raised in. Ask yourself, if you were raised in a muslim country and instructed to read kuran and if you were told it's the only truth, would you believe in bible? The simple and most likely answer is no. Now, why did the christians from that area of the world accept Muhammed's teachings in the first place? Well, although the large cities were mostly christian, the local arab nomadic tribes still had a pagan polytheistic religion. Muhammed basically merged the two religions and created a new monotheistic religion with many elements of the arab beliefs and rituals. It was a rather agressive belief system, but acceptable to both parties, and it resulted in Muhammed's forces conquering many arabic lands. The expansion to the north was temporarily ended by Charlemagne and the Byzantine empire (East Roman empire). Arabic lands were pacified for a while, until Turks came. They were also a nomadic pagan tribe and they adopted islam very quickly. They started a rapid expansion and among other things conquered the Byzantine empire. They also closed the trade routes and imposed severe taxes on silk, so the europeans were forced to circumnavigate Turkey. Hence the european naval expansion and the discovery of america. Heh, I got carried away a bit, but there's your history lesson for the day :

Oh but of course,where you are raised,and how you are raised makes a huge difference.

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Well, I hope they'll find out what's wrong and that you'll be better soon.

Thanks, I appreciate it.(and thanks to you to MisterOpus.)

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quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Yes, that's true that they are contradicting on many issues. (I'll be sure to check the link tonight.) Well,I don't think it's right to be bashing something like that. The Kuran is important to Muslims,Just as the Bible is to Christians.

Why isn't it right to expose errors, contradictions, intolerance and so forth in the holy books of religions?

I may be obsessed with Michael Moore, I may base my entire ethical code on what he says. That doesn't change the fact that he's a proven liar/wrong on some issues. Why shouldn't his lies be exposed?

In fact, if there's any book that should be scrutinized, then it's the bible & Koran. These texts are claiming to be the divine words of an omnipotent god who created the entire universe. They are also asking us to discriminate against gays, non believers and so forth, and justify the killing of non believers. Why shouldn't books that ask us to do this, and claim to answer questions like 'How did life start?' and 'Why are we here?' be scrutinized?

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quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, it's pretty simple why they believe so. Because of the environment they were raised in. Ask yourself, if you were raised in a muslim country and instructed to read kuran and if you were told it's the only truth, would you believe in bible? The simple and most likely answer is no. Now, why did the christians from that area of the world accept Muhammed's teachings in the first place? Well, although the large cities were mostly christian, the local arab nomadic tribes still had a pagan polytheistic religion. Muhammed basically merged the two religions and created a new monotheistic religion with many elements of the arab beliefs and rituals. It was a rather agressive belief system, but acceptable to both parties, and it resulted in Muhammed's forces conquering many arabic lands. The expansion to the north was temporarily ended by Charlemagne and the Byzantine empire (East Roman empire). Arabic lands were pacified for a while, until Turks came. They were also a nomadic pagan tribe and they adopted islam very quickly. They started a rapid expansion and among other things conquered the Byzantine empire. They also closed the trade routes and imposed severe taxes on silk, so the europeans were forced to circumnavigate Turkey. Hence the european naval expansion and the discovery of america. Heh, I got carried away a bit, but there's your history lesson for the day

Heh, interesting stuff.

It's probably also worth mentioning that Islam, according to many scholars, was actually born from those Christian sects who rejected the teachings of Paul and the centralized edicts that sprang from the council of Nicaea as a result. Christianity was essentially born from the teachings of Paul, whereas the teachings of James (called "Jesus' brother" - though it's unlikely that he was) - supposedly closer to the actual teachings of Jesus - emerged later in Islamic law and philosophy:

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A number of scholars have observed how ideas, motifs, themes, even words from the Dead Sea Scrolls make a suprising reappearance in Islam (in Shi'ite Islam especially, as it happens). [...] [T]he early church tackles the problem of which laws converts to Christianity must obey. [...] In the Acts of Apostles the problem is taken to James [...]. He gives Paul a letter to take to the Gentiles that says that, in short, some Jewish laws [...] prevail while others don't apply. [...]Paul never delivered this message to the Gentiles. Instead he claimed an apostleship of his own and developed his own radical doctrine [...]. Remarkably, though, centuries later, exactly these Jamesean legal rulings [...] reappear in Islam, in Islam's food regulations and general approach to law.

http://www.rationalist.com.au/62/p20-26.pdf

In many ways, Islam is likely to be more closely based on Christ's actual teachings (not St Paul's watered down versions) than Christianity is.

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quote:

Originally posted by Renegade In many ways, Islam is likely to be more closely based on Christ's actual teachings (not St Paul's watered down versions) than Christianity is.

I knew it would get to this someday!


Are you trying to tell me that Jesus was a terrorist?

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quote:

Originally posted by tathi please nelly do go on this is an old article i have been wanting to bring up for a while but havn't had the time nor did i want to create a thread solely for it, i think all the science nerds here will find it interesting: http://www.smh.com.au/media/2003/11...8674381518.html http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003...8674378878.html what do you think of the bifurcation between homo sapien and homo technicus, and the ethical problems that may come with it? Does this intelligent design show how godlike humanity is?

Oh man, this is so exciting, I read it and could not stop thinking about it for weeks. The concept of the human enhancing himself through the use of nanotechnology is so fascinating. Today, the human is at the base of each major scientific discovery and the more technology we've had the more discoveries we've made over the past 2 centuries. Having that in mind, think of the futer and in particular of the scientific advances that the super human (homo technicus) will achieve. It just makes me sorry for being born in the 20th century instead of in the end of the 21st.

The sorry part is that there is a vital hurdle that we will soon have to overcome. This hurdle is us, the modern post-industrial neandertals of the early 21st century. No matter how advanced we think we are today it is very clear that whitout changing our values, ideas and goals about life, society and the environment probably by 2050 we would distroy our habitats in any possible way:
through wars, through polution and through overpopulation. I think I should stop here as this topic is quite big and is more suitable for a main thread in the forum.

Anyway, as far as religion is concerned, be it Christian, Muslim, Buddhism, etc. I think that the lack of evidence for the existence of the supreme beings (Gods), is enough proof against the whole concept. The interesting thing is that when u sart thinking why there is religion you can come up with some very plausible and logical explanations.

One of these is the following. The human as a conscious animal which has tha ability to imagine, communicate and comprehend has a very natural thought that starts to come up in its mind as soon as it reaches its sexual maturity. This thought is most easily summurised in the sentence: " Why am I here, what is the meaning of my life??? "

MOst of us will come up with the easiest and most logical concliusion: "I am here to live and give life by reproducing myself", but if that is the sole purpose of our existence then we are not much different than all the other animals on this planet. Now here comes the explanation of what religion may be. Since we all need to have some purpose or goal in our life, long time ago (the time when there was no religion) people were begining to realise that there is no purpose in their existence. It is a very scary prospect which makes you feel useless, it makes life seem meaningless. So here comes religion, born as a social fenomenon, or just a master creation of our powerfull minds it did the job. It gave its followers the goals, the values and the rewards and thus spread on a massive scale throughout the world. This is a thesis in progress, but the interesting thing is that there are some things which prove it.

One of them is the fact that most scientists are not religious. Scientists have a clearly defined goal which they have set for their lifes and therefore do not need religion.
Second one is the fact that there are probably hundreds if not thousands of different religions all around the world - is it possible for so many gods to exist up there in the sky, or is it just that we just need something to believe in in order to live a more meaningfull life???

Well these are just some of my thoughts, one of these days I am gonna sit down and try to put them all together in an essay and if you want me I will post it in TA.com, as to this post, it started as a reply and grew into something that is supposed to make you think and share your oppinions.

I will read your comments whit great interest, so do not hasitate to submit them.

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quote:

Originally posted by Itso Oh man, this is so exciting, I read it and could not stop thinking about it for weeks. The concept of the human enhancing himself through the use of nanotechnology is so fascinating. Today, the human is at the base of each major scientific discovery and the more technology we've had the more discoveries we've made over the past 2 centuries. Having that in mind, think of the futer and in particular of the scientific advances that the super human (homo technicus) will achieve. It just makes me sorry for being born in the 20th century instead of in the end of the 21st. The sorry part is that there is a vital hurdle that we will soon have to overcome. This hurdle is us, the modern post-industrial neandertals of the early 21st century. No matter how advanced we think we are today it is very clear that whitout changing our values, ideas and goals about life, society and the environment probably by 2050 we would distroy our habitats in any possible way: through wars, through polution and through overpopulation. I think I should stop here as this topic is quite big and is more suitable for a main thread in the forum. Anyway, as far as religion is concerned, be it Christian, Muslim, Buddhism, etc. I think that the lack of evidence for the existence of the supreme beings (Gods), is enough proof against the whole concept. The interesting thing is that when u sart thinking why there is religion you can come up with some very plausible and logical explanations. One of these is the following. The human as a conscious animal which has tha ability to imagine, communicate and comprehend has a very natural thought that starts to come up in its mind as soon as it reaches its sexual maturity. This thought is most easily summurised in the sentence: " Why am I here, what is the meaning of my life??? " MOst of us will come up with the easiest and most logical concliusion: "I am here to live and give life by reproducing myself", but if that is the sole purpose of our existence then we are not much different than all the other animals on this planet. Now here comes the explanation of what religion may be. Since we all need to have some purpose or goal in our life, long time ago (the time when there was no religion) people were begining to realise that there is no purpose in their existence. It is a very scary prospect which makes you feel useless, it makes life seem meaningless. So here comes religion, born as a social fenomenon, or just a master creation of our powerfull minds it did the job. It gave its followers the goals, the values and the rewards and thus spread on a massive scale throughout the world. This is a thesis in progress, but the interesting thing is that there are some things which prove it. One of them is the fact that most scientists are not religious. Scientists have a clearly defined goal which they have set for their lifes and therefore do not need religion. Second one is the fact that there are probably hundreds if not thousands of different religions all around the world - is it possible for so many gods to exist up there in the sky, or is it just that we just need something to believe in in order to live a more meaningfull life??? Well these are just some of my thoughts, one of these days I am gonna sit down and try to put them all together in an essay and if you want me I will post it in TA.com, as to this post, it started as a reply and grew into something that is supposed to make you think and share your oppinions. I will read your comments whit great interest, so do not hasitate to submit them.

Chalk one up on the "I don't think their is a purpose to life and I'm not scared" board.... cuz that would be me.

Why does everything need a purpose... pfft, silly humans - animals don't go through life wondering what it's purpose is.

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Venus: And there are troops of savage giraffes whose necks are on fire, like the starry ejaculations of fireworks in the very pale sky of childhood ... Venus: Enter, enter here - men of all kinds and races, victims of reality! You who have the thirst for dreams. ... Venus: You, on life's bitter road, drenched in hard sunlight who have the thirst that once more the dark marvel of dreams...

quote:

Originally posted by SuperFarStucker Why does everything need a purpose... pfft, silly humans - animals don't go through life wondering what it's purpose is.

...that we KNOW of

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus hehe... and I thought Palestinian propaganda was bad

Yea, its almost as bad as the crap that comes out of Israel and the mouths of Zionists

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