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Originally posted by Anas Attia Under your logic... bush..elected..so all Americans want what bush wants.

No.
But in international stage, Bush is the representative of US.

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yohan, not sure what your problem is, but it seems you just like to argue. no basis or evidence to support your claims.

what have I said that makes no logical sense? am I blabbering illogical sentences?

Can you answer ONE direct question? Do you condone, or condemn Hamas, specifically to their terrorist actions?

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by InfiniteEclipse Fair enough. I see what you are saying. The issue of terrorism however, should be examined with care, on a case by case basis. Terrorism, as accusations from either side, tends to be loosely defined (not by you per say but generally). My trouble is, if an occupied lacks any formal military training or weaponry amidst the absence of technological advancement, should we consider their aggression as defensive or as terrorism. To clarify, consider missiles blindly fired into Israel. The general western consensus holds this to be acts of terrorism. On the other hand, these aggressors simply do not possess the means to advance forward and attack select targets. When is it terrorism and when is it patriotism. This thought really encompasses far more than the current Israel/Palestine conflict, and Chomsky would have a field day.

why does formal military training have to be a part of the equation?
simply put, if you deliberately target civillians, by modern definition, you are committing a terrorist act.

example. if you use a suicide bomber to blow himself up at a military base, that is not a terrorist action. if you use a suicide bomber to blow up a cafe full of civillians, that is a terrorist action

by blindly launching rockets into israel, Hamas is deliberately targeting civillians. that is a no no

there are ways to carry out guerilla/insurgent tactics without deliberately targeting civillians.

Hamas isn't launching rockets into Israel to destroy Israel's resolve, but to piss them off. So Israel retaliates, causing Palestinian casualties. This leads to Palestinian anger towards Israel, ensuring more recruits and support for Hamas.
This, I think, is the reason for the rocket attacks. Clearly there is no military purpose of any sort involved.

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer and so are those katyusha rockets being used to fight back Israel,and the fact that Israel is never able to stop them even with all their mighty millitary powers.Lets face it.

Hahah, well put. Are they really using oldass Katyusha rockets?

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Originally posted by Yohan why does formal military training have to be a part of the equation? simply put, if you deliberately target civillians, by modern definition, you are committing a terrorist act. example. if you use a suicide bomber to blow himself up at a military base, that is not a terrorist action. if you use a suicide bomber to blow up a cafe full of civillians, that is a terrorist action by blindly launching rockets into israel, Hamas is deliberately targeting civillians. that is a no no there are ways to carry out guerilla/insurgent tactics without deliberately targeting civillians. Hamas isn't launching rockets into Israel to destroy Israel's resolve, but to piss them off. So Israel retaliates, causing Palestinian casualties. This leads to Palestinian anger towards Israel, ensuring more recruits and support for Hamas. This, I think, is the reason for the rocket attacks. Clearly there is no military purpose of any sort involved.

in 1999 usa, canada, england and pretty much every other "superpower" in the world bombed my country. and out of those lets say 120 days of bombing they dropped bombs on civilian objects at least 50 times. civilan objects such as : civilian train, biggest tv station in the country, hospitals, CHINESE embassy and so on.

my question is how come nobody calls that terrorism?

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another question: how come usa stuck their noses in pretty much every single conflict/war in the past who knows how many years and now they choose to do nothing?

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Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty in 1999 usa, canada, england and pretty much every other "superpower" in the world bombed my country. and out of those lets say 120 days of bombing they dropped bombs on civilian objects at least 50 times. civilan objects such as : civilian train, biggest tv station in the country, hospitals, CHINESE embassy and so on. my question is how come nobody calls that terrorism?

NATO supposedly claimed that the targets destroyed had dual purpose, both military and civillian.

Under international law, if a building or an object can be used for military purposes, it can be targeted and destroyed.

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty my question is how come nobody calls that terrorism?

because people have been brainwashed to believe that North America..namely the US represents all that is Good....and every action that the US has taken is justified.....because CNN says so...

trust me dude..there many of us out there that question these things..there is a whole generation of people that are questioning things..

as for the US sticking their nose into this situation..well...it doesn't benefit them ..and some of the most powerful people in the US happen to have an interest in Israel maintaining power and authority...

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Originally posted by gummybear because people have been brainwashed to believe that North America..namely the US represents all that is Good....and every action that the US has taken is justified.....because CNN says so... trust me dude..there many of us out there that question these things..there is a whole generation of people that are questioning things.. as for the US sticking their nose into this situation..well...it doesn't benefit them ..and some of the most powerful people in the US happen to have an interest in Israel maintaining power and authority...

i know gummy, but its scary when people like yohan are supposed to be "our future leaders".

lots of people say "emotions cloud your judgement" and they're right. to the extent. but its fucking insulting and mindboggling that those people are so sure they know whats going on in those "far away places" from the comfort of their own home, cnn news that they watch and those books that they read.

non biased my ass. you chose your side long time ago, you just dont have balls to say it out loud.

yohan, i guess chinese let us use their embassy for military purposes???

you're full of shit

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Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty i know gummy, but its scary when people like yohan are supposed to be "our future leaders". lots of people say "emotions cloud your judgement" and they're right. to the extent. but its fucking insulting and mindboggling that those people are so sure they know whats going on in those "far away places" from the comfort of their own home, cnn news that they watch and those books that they read. non biased my ass. you chose your side long time ago, you just dont have balls to say it out loud. yohan, i guess chinese let us use their embassy for military purposes??? you're full of shit

the chinese embassy account is in a bit of dispute, but general consensus is that NATO screwed up on that one (mistakes seems to happen whenever humans do something)

if you want to talk more on this, feel free to send me a PM

now, back to our regularly scheduled israel vs palestine fun talk

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by Yohan the chinese embassy account is in a bit of dispute, but general consensus is that NATO screwed up on that one (mistakes seems to happen whenever humans do something) if you want to talk more on this, feel free to send me a PM now, back to our regularly scheduled israel vs palestine fun talk

theres no talking to you. youre so sure that you know whats going on between israel and palestine just like you were so sure what was going on between russia and georgia just like you were so sure what was going on with kosovo.....

and there's pattern, you always choose the same, pro usa side. so trying to logically argue with you is impossible.

but please, indulge me and answer me this :

quote:

another question: how come usa stuck their noses in pretty much every single conflict/war in the past who knows how many years and now they choose to do nothing?

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Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty theres no talking to you. youre so sure that you know whats going on between israel and palestine just like you were so sure what was going on between russia and georgia just like you were so sure what was going on with kosovo..... and there's pattern, you always choose the same, pro usa side. so trying to logically argue with you is impossible.

how am I a pro USA if I'm against both Israel and Palestine?
how am I a pro USA if I'm against war in Iraq?

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but please, indulge me and answer me this :

US has been involved in all peace dialogue between Israel and Palestine, even to recent 07 talks held by Bush.

exactly what do you expect US to do? go in with guns blazing?

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty i know gummy, but its scary when people like yohan are supposed to be "our future leaders". lots of people say "emotions cloud your judgement" and they're right. to the extent. but its fucking insulting and mindboggling that those people are so sure they know whats going on in those "far away places" from the comfort of their own home, cnn news that they watch and those books that they read. non biased my ass. you chose your side long time ago, you just dont have balls to say it out loud. yohan, i guess chinese let us use their embassy for military purposes??? you're full of shit

i think people just have a difficult time conceptualizing things that they have not been physically privy to...or maybe i'm giving them too much credit..

it's one thing to watch the watered down news and read the biased reports..but another thing to be sitting in your home and having bombs dropped on your neighbourhood....watching friends/family die..digging through rubble to find your child who is buried underneath..etc...etc...

i think that people are so far removed from what is going on that they have no choice but to form their opinions on what little information they are fed...the thing that angers me is that people have the choice to research and find out the the facts..but they choose not to..so arrogant in their thought processes that they are not willing to be proven wrong..to me those people are just robots...trying to argue and debate with certain mindsets is draining and, a waste of time..the truth is, there are people in this world that do not feel a twinge of sadness when they see others being hurt and killed...they are too busy with their own lives...look at us..we live in a society and age where most people won't even help someone on the street..we look the other way...it's sad..

and let's be honest here..there is a lot of Muslim hate in this world...so, it's not about what is right and wrong..what is just or unjust..it becomes about who people like more..who they view as "good"..who they are TOLD are good..those are the types of people i don't care to discuss these issues with..as their opinions and "knowledge" is derived from a foundation of hate, bias and untruths..