and Lira, since I was a child I have been obsessed with the cold war, not only the weapons, but the politics, both international and domestic of most of the major players involved. I've read countless books on the subject of relations during that period of time and engaged in self-study, as well as consulting people with academic knowledge of the subject (that mainly being related to the "modern" history of western Europe).

If you do not think that someone with even a passing knowledge of the political brinkmanship that occurred during this time would understand the importance of trust and secrecy then you severely underestimate a persons capacity for learning.

Go code some more ARMA mods, nerd.

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Originally posted by igottaknow As long as info disclosed wouldn't blow someone's cover and get them killed in the field, I don't have a problem with it. The only people who are surprised are the citizens who when confronted with their own country duplicated actions, are powerless to do anything or are unwilling.

The problem is that Wikileaks is cherry picking documents to release, as well as some of the papers involved.

The last two major releases expose no illegal activity, or even actions that warrant concern from the countries involved.

They did however expose national strategic economic and security assets those countries deemed important, things that might not have been thought of by potential enemies.

The document last night exposed our plans for defending the Baltic region from Russian aggression.

Both of these documents have nothing of value for the average citizen, and in terms of things like securing our allies against a potential foreign aggressor they just do damage to countries like Poland and Lithuania, not to the US (though it does damage our relationship with those countries, as they might not trust us in the future).

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Originally posted by enydo Go code some more ARMA mods, nerd.

and now the ad hominem attacks begin because people have no rational grounds to refute me on.

Ad hominem this, nerd.

Lol, wtf Austin? Nou can sound stupid sometimes, but he has valid points in this case. You don't want him telling you to go park more peoples cars, do you?

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I'm jus trollin man. And I quit that job.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Its not even that "deep" of knowledge for fucks sake... Its common sense that can be applied from the man on the street to the state. Secrets need to be kept sometimes to maintain the best state of affairs.

This is not common sense. As a matter of fact, I'd say this is completely misguided. We need as much information as possible to make informed decisions. If you're being withheld information, then you obviously can't make as good a decision as you would if you had access to all (un)available knowledge.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby you do realize that secrecy is important between friends?

Hell... I've got (not) to tell my friends a few things

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Would you go sharing everything your fiance/girlfriend said with the rest of the world? Would you be mad if someone stole your cellphones or got access to your emails and shared them with the rest of the world? Even if there is nothing criminal in there you respect the right to your privacy, and even more important, her privacy?

Nou, you've got no relationship whatsoever with my fiancée, professional or otherwise. Politicians, on the other hand, are supposed to serve us. We need to know what they're doing as much as they feel they need to know what we're doing.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby What if you had vented to a close friend about something your girlfriend did, you know, nothing important, just venting, blowing off steam, you might have even addressed the issue with her directly, but now that information that you were talking to someone else about it is out there (that is a hypothetical based on no knowledge of how YOUR girlfriend would react, just an example). You obviously can see how some harm could be done right?

How could this be relevant to anyone but the two of us?

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby and Lira, since I was a child I have been obsessed with the cold war, not only the weapons, but the politics, both international and domestic of most of the major players involved. I've read countless books on the subject of relations during that period of time and engaged in self-study, as well as consulting people with academic knowledge of the subject (that mainly being related to the "modern" history of western Europe).

I'm not saying you're the naïve one in the discussion. What I'm saying is that, before trumpeting that everyone else is naïve but you, you should really consider that people may have diverging views regardless of the amount of information they have.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby The document last night exposed our plans for defending the Baltic region from Russian aggression.

But do you honestly believe this is a secret that the Russian Intelligence didn't already know? (I know laughed when read back russian intelligence)

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby and Lira, since I was a child I have been obsessed with the cold war, not only the weapons, but the politics, both international and domestic of most of the major players involved. I've read countless books on the subject of relations during that period of time and engaged in self-study, as well as consulting people with academic knowledge of the subject (that mainly being related to the "modern" history of western Europe). If you do not think that someone with even a passing knowledge of the political brinkmanship that occurred during this time would understand the importance of trust and secrecy then you severely underestimate a persons capacity for learning.

i was gonna say "hey the cold war's over nou" but you beat me to it

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BA-DUM-TSS

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ALFI - BOHICA - DJ MIX (Stream+Dropbox)

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Originally posted by Lira Nou, you've got no relationship whatsoever with my fiancée, professional or otherwise. Politicians, on the other hand, are supposed to serve us. We need to know what they're doing as much as they feel they need to know what we're doing.

You do not have parents? Say there were nude photos, or photos of you two fucking, everyone knows you do it, but do you really want your friends and parents and her parents to see it?

Politicians serve us. That is true. Part of serving us, and explicitly given to them in the Constitution in the US is that they will act as our representatives to foreign nations and that they are the interface for foreign contact and negotiations. You should know what they are doing, but you can't realistically, these are things that have to stay out of the public arena because the pertain to sensitive information. That arena of trust, that what is said will be confidential, not to screw each others citizens (though this can be the case, and thats where they should be exposed) but to protect each others citizens from the states that might not share the same interests in regards to whatever topic they might be discussing.

You give these people this power, it is part of their job. If you do not understand that, then please take a basic course in civics, I am sure it is a power delegated to someone specifically in your government to carry out these actions.

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Originally posted by Lira How could this be relevant to anyone but the two of us?.

See above.

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Originally posted by igottaknow But do you honestly believe this is a secret that the Russian Intelligence didn't already know? (I know laughed when read back russian intelligence)

Who knows? Why should we bet on them already knowing things when we are talking about what we do and do not keep secret?