quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Classic trance is very simplistic and repetitive. Epic trance actually has more musical merit than classic trance.

Prove it. Give us some examples.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J It's ridiculous to assume that all breakdowns are bad, all melodies are pop and that all classic trance was good. A lot of it was absolute shite, just as a lot of modern trance is.

Prove it. Give us some examples.






If you can give proof to your argument than I would agree with you.

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quote:

Originally posted by Blue Balls Prove it. Give us some examples. Prove it. Give us some examples. If you can give proof to your argument than I would agree with you.

seen as your so confident why dont you prove it?

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 so if we realize that musical taste is subjective then science stops working?

Categorizing and understanding the history and developement of music can be viewed as a science. With that depth of understanding, the subjective worth of music can, in my opinion, be more accurately attained.



for example,


someone very new to EDM might say ' holy shit mike foyle's sound is awesome because I just think so '


but someone very well versed in EDM might say ' this mike foyle sound is very average based on xyz reasons'





a person new to EDM views the musical subjectively.

a person who is 'educated' in EDM understands music more sciefificly and objectively.



Akin to how a 14th Century farmer would view the world compared to a 14th Century Philospher.

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quote:

Originally posted by JakeC seen as your so confident why dont you prove it?

I'll be honest with you.


I don't know shit. I listen to other people. I hear their case and than make a judgement.

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but it still al comes back to ones opinion.

one mans cheese is another mans pickle.

ah, the same old "educated people like but they don't like trance" thing.

We've been through this one alot before, I don't care to go into it again. I'll just say that I know many many people who have been in the scene a long time and still enjoy the trance, despite having heard plenty of other styles and having been as educated about EDM as anyone else on here has been.

You might be able to create some correlation between those who know alot about music and those who dislike trance here on TA, but in real life this just doesn't stand up, and even a few of the biggest elitiests on here have admitted that.


Categorizing and understanding the history and developement of music is not science, it is only history. The way music evolves and changes is a funcion of the dominant ideas of both the authors and the listeners in a certain period and place. There is no absolute right and wrong music, just trends fluctuating as time passes.

Lets do the political rock example, the stuff was frigin huge in the 60's, people ran away from home to follow it, to them is was worth quite alot. This was not science, nobody reached an objective conclusion that political rock was a better form of music then the repressive shit from the 50's, they were just pissed off by vietnam/the white man/society etc, so the music sang to them and they called it good.

a similar case can be made for detriot techno, black people, access to technology that they didn't have before, the idea of the furture, etc. Again, not science, but history.

Different sounds have different values to different people, this isn't an absolute objective thing.

Last edited by Zombie0915 on Mar-12-2005 at 21:20

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 You might be able to create some correlation between those who know alot about music and those who dislike trance here on TA

more like a correlation not to like 'average' or 'copied' trance.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 ah, the same old "educated people like but they don't like trance" thing.

You continue to fail to understand the core of my thesis. Epic Dutch Trance is NOT similar to other trance, as Ishkur said. It's a different category with a different feeling.

I have no fucking idea where you got this situation where you have those who like trance vs. those who don't like trance.

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well, when I said trance, I meant your epic style, its just too much to type every time, crikey.

I am well aware that epic trance is not all of trance, and assumed you were too.

Despite what you want to think, it is possible to like the epic style without enjoying average or copied music, and many people are out there right now doing this. You really must not get out much if you haven't met any of them, hell I'm in the middle of redneck hell USA and I have met them.

why dont you just state the core of your thesis like I asked

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 it is possible to like the epic style without enjoying average or copied music

let me use an example that you can understand.


remeber when flannels and jeans were really cool in the mid 90's. guess what? If you're still wearing that shit now your out of touch with fashion. You can still wear it but you KNOW that is shit. You're not pretending that it's something fashionable.

same with music.


remeber when epic trance was new and refreshing back in the day. guess what? If you still think listening to epic style trance is still new and refreshing you're out of touch with music. You can still listen to epic trance but you KNOW its cheese. And you can't act like it's something new or refreshing.



Hopefully you understand now. Fashion is like music. Both 'subjective'. But those who know fashion or those who know music will know whats hot and whats not. Very simple.


The problem with fashion and music is that the general public is always last to know.

The public is last to pick up on a trend and last to exit.

The public was last to pick up on epic trance and will be last to understand that its shit .

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Does the fact that one style of music is 'hotter' that another make it better?

If so, then why aren't you listening to hip-hop?

You have definately picked a good example to relate to me with. While kids were wearing the flannel and jeans in the 90's I wasn't, and I got picked on for it alot, I am very out of touch with fashion to say the least.

But the aproach to realizing that one fashion is hot and the other is in no way objective or scientific, and it doesn't proove that the new thing is any better either.

That kind of stuff is the realm of trendiness, and I'm not much for following trends.

I find that the kids listening to epic styles aren't listening to the stuff because it is new or refreshing, but because it is fun, it does not really matter to them what everybody else thinks is the hot style.

Maybe my scene is just blessed with talented locals or something, but they find ways to play epic styles that are very uncheesy. I find that on many nights of going out people are capable of playing euphoric styles without over-recycling and being cheesy.

I agree that the dominant figures in epic style are being quite cheesy and hard to enjoy, but I dont agree that this is because the whole epic style is inferior.

But you are right, when I listen to those guys I know that the style is not what many consider hot, I just dont give a fuck.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 If so, then why aren't you listening to hip-hop?

hip hop is hot with the public now but those famialr with music know it cheese ball shit.

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