Why are you so bitter (or come off as bitter) towards this and those who give remembrance? If you don't want to do it - don't. If you think it's stupid, so be it but don't try and tell us why it's stupid and shouldn't be done and that getting a country together for 2 minutes of silence is not right for what the soldiers did for us. It's just a service of respect. It's not the only day we think of our loved ones who fought but it's the day you get everyone together. It's a beautiful thing, really.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On No, it's actually quite dumb. But I realize you're being hypothetical, so let's play. If their intention was to preserve my life by sacrificing their own, then they have undoubtedly done me a favour - one that I can never pay back because they are dead and gone. Don't you think that the least I could do is watch out for cars in the future? Don't you think it would be monumentally disrespectful for me to go ahead and get myself hit by a car anyways, despite what this other person has done for me - what they have died for? Oh, but I forgot, lip service for 2 minutes a year while we so reluctantly soldier on will sate the dead.

thank goodness there aren't that many people who think like you do.

or else humanity would have been really fucked

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by Frenchie Why are you so bitter (or come off as bitter) towards this and those who give remembrance? If you don't want to do it - don't. If you think it's stupid, so be it but don't try and tell us why it's stupid and shouldn't be done and that getting a country together for 2 minutes of silence is not right for what the soldiers did for us. It's just a service of respect. It's not the only day we think of our loved ones who fought but it's the day you get everyone together. It's a beautiful thing, really.

Because people like you seem to think we all owe our forefathers some debt of the freedom they bestowed upon us by forfeiting theirs - it simply does not work that way. Rememberance is not something you give, it's just something you simply do, so why, oh why, are you so intent on convincing me that some noble deed was done years before I was ever conceived and that I should feel pride or debt or even shame that I could never be as brave as the dead and gone? People should not be burdened by the history of their people - ethnically or nationally. If we are to share our pride and remember all of the nobility and the glory and the sacrifice, then surely it is reprehensible to likewise forgot all of the atrocities of war merely because they do not fit our convenient image. I do not particularly think that any American should feel a great swell of pride when they recall, say, Nagasaki or Hiroshima. But men did it - men in history. What debt would you say that we owe for that? What freedom must we savor because a city full of fucking civilians was wiped off the map?

You want to know why I am bitter over it? Because, just as you would love to fucking parade about, millions of people lost their lives in war. And we can celebrate this fact by closing banks, but we still have not learned a fucking thing.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On There is nothing exacted without good intention. Whether it is for a greater good or the good of oneself, if the intention is "good", it is noble, right? I suspect that it is your definition of what is "good" that shall be your shortcoming in this.

good and noble are not the same thing.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

You're thinking too hard and too deeply. All I do is go to a ceremony, pay my respect and leave. I think it's the least I can do. I don't parade around about it, I don't make people go do the same, I don't think everyone should go out and stand in the cold, sing the national anthem and some other psalms. If you really, REALLY have a problem with people doing this -that's your Prerogative, yes.

i think what he means is a universally accepted notion of "good" or a relative version. I think moral believes in certain universal principles, but halcyon is pushing the relative meaning (i.e. possibly selfish, for one's own good).

semantics, really...but i agree with Halcyon's point about how remembrance is sort of a charade just like valentine's day and christmas and all the other commercialized "days" we have today where we can absolve ourselves of our immoral behaviour by tagging meaning to one day and time for 2 fucking minutes where we show how much we care.

but i'm hypocritical in a way because i do similar things in my religion (fasting, praying, etc.) but i keep on sinning! lol

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard good and noble are not the same thing.

Ah, yes, "good" is what you do and "noble" is just where you intend to do something good. Hah.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Ah, yes, "good" is what you do and "noble" is just where you intend to do something good. Hah.

It's now clear you're simply looking to entertain yourself, as you're far to bright to appear this stupid.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Because people like you seem to think we all owe our forefathers some debt of the freedom they bestowed upon us by forfeiting theirs - it simply does not work that way. Rememberance is not something you give, it's just something you simply do, so why, oh why, are you so intent on convincing me that some noble deed was done years before I was ever conceived and that I should feel pride or debt or even shame that I could never be as brave as the dead and gone? People should not be burdened by the history of their people - ethnically or nationally. If we are to share our pride and remember all of the nobility and the glory and the sacrifice, then surely it is reprehensible to likewise forgot all of the atrocities of war merely because they do not fit our convenient image. I do not particularly think that any American should feel a great swell of pride when they recall, say, Nagasaki or Hiroshima. But men did it - men in history. What debt would you say that we owe for that? What freedom must we savor because a city full of fucking civilians was wiped off the map? You want to know why I am bitter over it? Because, just as you would love to fucking parade about, millions of people lost their lives in war. And we can celebrate this fact by closing banks, but we still have not learned a fucking thing.

again you are missing the point. the day isn't to remember or glorify the wars, the day is to remember and glorify the great personal sacrifices of those who served. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who wants to glorify war, especially among those who have actually been involved in it

You know what, this is going in cirles.

I am proud of my family's, and my nation's, contributions to WWI/II.

I am proud to live in a free country, with the right to express any dissent I may feel towards my government. I am proud to know many of the black, gay and disabled people I do, as they all have thier own story of overcoming society's challenges. Many of whom would no doubt have been killed in the name of ethnic purity by the Nazis.

I am proud to take two minutes of my day once a year to lower my head and contemplate what these people, volunteer or not, went through and to that which they bore witness.

I am appalled by your dismissal of so many people who made such a sacrifice, but I would go fight to the death for your right to say such things.

Some people in here need a history lesson. May I suggest you go down to the local legion hall and spend some time with the vets there? I'm sure they would love to hear you call thier dead friends skirt-chasers and adventurists.

Get some fucking respect.

Also, please bear in mind that the world was a very different place in 1914. Imperialism, the revolution of industry and limited media.
World War I was the first real departure from existing attritional warfare. Once upon a time, two armies would square off and take pot-shots at each other with black power rifles before one huge skirmish of hands and bayonets left one army decimated. Modern (for 1914) artillery and automatic weapons made clear the problems with industrialized attritional warfare. It was hell on earth, pure and simple. Whether they volunteered out of an all but forgotten sense of loyalty and duty to thier King, or were conscripted, the horrors of war were no less real to them.
Imagine it, just for a second. The smell of burnt and rotting flesh, sewage, cordite and mud...the constant drone of incoming and outgoing artillery and the screaming of the wounded. Disease, parasites, dissentry, the constant threat of death or worse. All this thrown in the face of a Canadian boy who knows nothing other than his family farm outside Winnipeg and that his country needs him. The nobility of it should be enough to humble any of you.

It's imporant to some of us. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

May they all, and may we all, live and rest in peace.

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lol just for the record, i was being facetious with my "skirt chasing" comments