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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by DOOMBOT
So then we can both agree that it is monetary policy that has brought this state down?


LOL. this just shows how little you understand. states don't effect monetary policy


___________________

Old Post Jun-22-2009 04:06  Australia
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

Oh Jesus Christ on a bike. This is like arguing about the existence of aliens with a third grader who just watched ET.

The grasp of basic economics and finance in this thread is seriously confounding, and completely defeats the purpose of anybody's participation in this thread that knows what they're talking about. Just the mere fact that you guys cling unabashedly to the MISES/Austria school and liberally gloat about not knowing the first thing about classical economics is like a giant neon sign flashing "stay away, I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'll fight to the death to convince you that my ill-conceived and pedantic drivel is God's own truth!"


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Old Post Jun-22-2009 04:08  United Nations
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by ********
http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/r...l_reserve.shtml


quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
I see no reason to continue reading your drivel. you repeatedly prove you don't understand how the fed works or what they do.


go to school, fraud.


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Old Post Jun-22-2009 04:09  Australia
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DOOMBOT
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by jerZ07002
i'm a free market guy too, but do you see any harm in allowing unregulated free market activity?[/b][/i]

Do I see any "harm"? Well, be a little more specific then that. I'm not dreaming of a Utopian society here so I do believe that there will be hardships in a free market society but everything is left to the free market to decide things.

quote:
there are certainly bad aspects of total free markets. Mainly, the limited access to information by consumers and users of products.

I would actually argue that we are limited to our knowledge of what is going on with our markets more now then we would in a free market society. I mean, look at the vids posted not too long ago in this thread. The Fed doesn't even know what the hell is going on with our money.

quote:
So long as one party has more information (or more relevant information) than the counter party, there will be manipulation and free market system will not fully work. As to monetary policy, my view (and the view of almost everyone) is that central banks are necessary because we need stability in monetary policy. In a truly free market system, the value of money would be wildly volatile. That's simply unacceptable for monetary policy.

Why do you think this way though? Why are you so against the free market in deciding what is going to be used as money?

Old Post Jun-22-2009 04:09 
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culorut
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2007
Location: right here

Court Rules Federal Reserve is Privately Owned

Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (1982)


John L. Lewis, Plaintiff/Appellant,
v.
United States of America, Defendant/Appellee.


No. 80-5905
United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit.
Submitted March 2, 1982.
Decided April 19, 1982.
As Amended June 24, 1982.

Plaintiff, who was injured by vehicle owned and operated by a federal reserve bank, brought action alleging jurisdiction under the Federal Tort Claims Act. The United States District Court for the Central District of California, David W. Williams, J., dismissed holding that federal reserve bank was not a federal agency within meaning of Act and that the court therefore lacked subject-matter jurisdiction. Appeal was taken. The Court of Appeals, Poole, Circuit Judge, held that federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations.

Affirmed.

1. United States

There are no sharp criteria for determining whether an entity is a federal agency within meaning of the Federal Tort Claims Act, but critical factor is existence of federal government control over "detailed physical performance" and "day to day operation" of an entity. . . .

2. United States

Federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of a Federal Tort Claims Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations in light of fact that direct supervision and control of each bank is exercised by board of directors, federal reserve banks, though heavily regulated, are locally controlled by their member banks, banks are listed neither as "wholly owned" government corporations nor as "mixed ownership" corporations; federal reserve banks receive no appropriated funds from Congress and the banks are empowered to sue and be sued in their own names. . . .

3. United States

Under the Federal Tort Claims Act, federal liability is narrowly based on traditional agency principles and does not necessarily lie when a tortfeasor simply works for an entity, like the Reserve Bank, which performs important activities for the government. . . .

4. Taxation

The Reserve Banks are deemed to be federal instrumentalities for purposes of immunity from state taxation.

5. States Taxation

Tests for determining whether an entity is federal instrumentality for purposes of protection from state or local action or taxation, is very broad: whether entity performs important governmental function.

--------------

Lafayette L. Blair, Compton, Cal., for plaintiff/appellant.

James R. Sullivan, Asst. U.S. Atty., Los Angeles, Cal., argued, for defendant/appellee; Andrea Sheridan Ordin, U.S. Atty., Los Angeles, Cal., on brief.

Appeal from the United States District Court for the Central District of California.

Before Poole and Boochever, Circuit Judges, and Soloman, District Judge. (The Honorable Gus J. Solomon, Senior District Judge for the District of Oregon, sitting by designation)

Poole, Circuit Judge:

On July 27, 1979, appellant John Lewis was injured by a vehicle owned and operated by the Los Angeles branch of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. Lewis brought this action in district court alleging jurisdiction under the Federal Tort Clains Act (the Act), 28 U.S.C. Sect. 1346(b). The United States moved to dismiss for lack of subject matter jurisdiction. The district court dismissed, holding that the Federal Reserve Bank is not a federal agency within the meaning of the Act and that the court therefore lacked subject matter jurisdiction. We affirm.


http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/frcourt.html

Old Post Jun-22-2009 04:12  Canada
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by DOOMBOT
Why are you so against the free market in deciding what is going to be used as money?


because its been tried, and failed dismally. duh.


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Old Post Jun-22-2009 04:12  Australia
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DOOMBOT
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Oh Jesus Christ on a bike. This is like arguing about the existence of aliens with a third grader who just watched ET.

The grasp of basic economics and finance in this thread is seriously confounding, and completely defeats the purpose of anybody's participation in this thread that knows what they're talking about. Just the mere fact that you guys cling unabashedly to the MISES/Austria school and liberally gloat about not knowing the first thing about classical economics is like a giant neon sign flashing "stay away, I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'll fight to the death to convince you that my ill-conceived and pedantic drivel is God's own truth!"

The only thing that you have done in this post is say you don't like another point of view. I would respect that opinion, if you would at least give a reason why, but you didn't do that. You are coming across as a very unintelligent human begin. Please don't take that as an insult, because there are very dumb people out there in this world, obviously. You are just making it known that you are one of them.

So please, prove me wrong and explain why you are so strongly against the Austrian economic philosophies.

Old Post Jun-22-2009 04:13 
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DOOMBOT
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
because its been tried, and failed dismally. duh.

Please embellish a little. Do you have any times in history where this has proven to be a failure? I'm honestly interested in studying these periods in which you speak of.

Old Post Jun-22-2009 04:14 
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culorut
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2007
Location: right here

Welcome to sheeple world DOOMBOT. Notice they have not answered a god dam thing yet but are still trolling.

Old Post Jun-22-2009 04:14  Canada
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jerZ07002
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2006
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by DOOMBOT
Do I see any "harm"? Well, be a little more specific then that. I'm not dreaming of a Utopian society here so I do believe that there will be hardships in a free market society but everything is left to the free market to decide things.


i said that because no system is perfect and uncritical support of something shows a lack of understanding.


quote:
Originally posted by DOOMBOT
I would actually argue that we are limited to our knowledge of what is going on with our markets more now then we would in a free market society. I mean, look at the vids posted not too long ago in this thread. The Fed doesn't even know what the hell is going on with our money.


how so?



quote:
Originally posted by DOOMBOT
Why do you think this way though? Why are you so against the free market in deciding what is going to be used as money?


volatility. you need to know that when you go in a super market on friday the price of bread is going to be nearly the same as it was on monday.

look at the volatility in fx markets or commodities markets. if the value of currency was as volatile as other commodities then it would provide a real hardship on many people.

another reason we need central banks is to ensure the authenticity of currency. If we allowed free markets to decide currencies, how would we know whether a specific currency was authentic? would we rely on moodys or S&P, the same private companies that had an enormous role in causing the current economic crisis?

Old Post Jun-22-2009 04:19  United States
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culorut
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2007
Location: right here

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN

I see no reason to continue reading your drivel. you repeatedly prove you don't understand how the fed works or what they do.


You have no idea how the FED works, how can you even continue talking anymore when you clearly have no fucking clue on the subject. Nor can you even admit to the FED being a private entity and a scam after being proved completely wrong for the last 10 pages of this thread.

Old Post Jun-22-2009 04:21  Canada
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by culorut
Court Rules Federal Reserve is Privately Owned

Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (1982)


John L. Lewis, Plaintiff/Appellant,
v.
United States of America, Defendant/Appellee.


No. 80-5905
United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit.
Submitted March 2, 1982.
Decided April 19, 1982.
As Amended June 24, 1982.

Plaintiff, who was injured by vehicle owned and operated by a federal reserve bank, brought action alleging jurisdiction under the Federal Tort Claims Act. The United States District Court for the Central District of California, David W. Williams, J., dismissed holding that federal reserve bank was not a federal agency within meaning of Act and that the court therefore lacked subject-matter jurisdiction. Appeal was taken. The Court of Appeals, Poole, Circuit Judge, held that federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations.

Affirmed.

1. United States

There are no sharp criteria for determining whether an entity is a federal agency within meaning of the Federal Tort Claims Act, but critical factor is existence of federal government control over "detailed physical performance" and "day to day operation" of an entity. . . .

2. United States

Federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of a Federal Tort Claims Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations in light of fact that direct supervision and control of each bank is exercised by board of directors, federal reserve banks, though heavily regulated, are locally controlled by their member banks, banks are listed neither as "wholly owned" government corporations nor as "mixed ownership" corporations; federal reserve banks receive no appropriated funds from Congress and the banks are empowered to sue and be sued in their own names. . . .

3. United States

Under the Federal Tort Claims Act, federal liability is narrowly based on traditional agency principles and does not necessarily lie when a tortfeasor simply works for an entity, like the Reserve Bank, which performs important activities for the government. . . .

4. Taxation

The Reserve Banks are deemed to be federal instrumentalities for purposes of immunity from state taxation.

5. States Taxation

Tests for determining whether an entity is federal instrumentality for purposes of protection from state or local action or taxation, is very broad: whether entity performs important governmental function.

--------------

Lafayette L. Blair, Compton, Cal., for plaintiff/appellant.

James R. Sullivan, Asst. U.S. Atty., Los Angeles, Cal., argued, for defendant/appellee; Andrea Sheridan Ordin, U.S. Atty., Los Angeles, Cal., on brief.

Appeal from the United States District Court for the Central District of California.

Before Poole and Boochever, Circuit Judges, and Soloman, District Judge. (The Honorable Gus J. Solomon, Senior District Judge for the District of Oregon, sitting by designation)

Poole, Circuit Judge:

On July 27, 1979, appellant John Lewis was injured by a vehicle owned and operated by the Los Angeles branch of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. Lewis brought this action in district court alleging jurisdiction under the Federal Tort Clains Act (the Act), 28 U.S.C. Sect. 1346(b). The United States moved to dismiss for lack of subject matter jurisdiction. The district court dismissed, holding that the Federal Reserve Bank is not a federal agency within the meaning of the Act and that the court therefore lacked subject matter jurisdiction. We affirm.


http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/frcourt.html


I LOVE IT.

see how the conspiracy theorists do nothing but repeat old news that we've dealt with before. that's not even beginning on cretinrot's newfound expertise of law!! hahahahaha. man, what an ignorant fraud.

oh look, this idea was shot to pieces way back in 2004. nice try cretin.

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
That ruling applied to the 10 federal reserve district banks, not the main Fed...

And by the way, the key wording of that court decision is this:

Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (1982)
John L. Lewis, Plaintiff/Appellant,
v.
United States of America, Defendant/Appellee.

No. 80-5905
United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit.
Submitted March 2, 1982.
Decided April 19, 1982.
As Amended June 24, 1982.


Examining the organization and function of the Federal Reserve Banks, and applying the relevant factors, we conclude that the Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purpose of the FTCA, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations.


The court case was brought by John L. Lewis who was injured by a vehicle owned and operated by a federal reserve bank, and brought action alleging jurisdiction under the Federal Tort Claims Act. The District Court dismissed the case by ruling that the federal reserve bank was not a federal agency within meaning of the Federal Tort Claims Act and the court therefore lacked subject-matter jurisdiction.

However, this does not imply, as so many wrongly interpret, that private individuals own the banks for the court also stated “Each Federal Reserve Bank is a separate corporation owned by commercial banks in its region. The stockholding commercial banks elect two thirds of each Bank’s nine member board of directors. The remaining three directors are appointed by the Federal Reserve Board. The Federal Reserve Board then regulates the Reserve Banks. And the Federal Reserve Board is by no means a private institution.


back to school for the cretin it seems. instead of falling over here due to rampant stupidity, why dont you actually go and get a degree so you can then maybe school us all in economic and law related matters?


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Old Post Jun-22-2009 04:21  Australia
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