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Originally posted by tubularbills again, why details of an investigation need to be brought to light before anything is done in regards to even thinking about changing laws.

Come on Bills, that same argument has been used after every one of these mass shootings in the past 50 years. All the gun lobby people and militia-men start screeming "it's too early to have this debate" and the debate never happens. It's not too fuckin' early, the debate should have happened in 1966. So maybe it's too early to have this discussion about this one incident; however, the debate is long overdue on the rest of them... more than 60 in the past 30 years.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Come on Bills, that same argument has been used after every one of these mass shootings in the past 50 years. All the gun lobby people and militia-men start screeming "it's too early to have this debate" and the debate never happens. It's not too fuckin' early, the debate should have happened in 1966. So maybe it's too early to have this discussion about this one incident; however, the debate is long overdue on the rest of them... more than 60 in the past 30 years.

but isn't always the same result? some mentally unstable person got a hold of some weapons and shot up the place and (generally speaking) killed themselves afterwards.

I'm not trying to be a douche about this, but isn't the issue the mentally unstabled person, and not the gun itself?

I agree that assault weapons in the general public really have no need. and I agree that there should be some regulations out there to prevent certain individuals from obtaining any kind of firearm. and I'm not saying that gun control = "they terk our gerns" and doing all the NRA gov't is going to take away everything----I'm just really liberal about guns...if people want one (within reason, again...not an assault weapon....but just a regular ol' handgun), then by all means; go get one.

And I'm not saying that the mentally unstable should be locked up so they can't get to anything like guns....I'm just trying to understand how a good system can be put in place that would prevent people who commit these acts (the shooters -- columbine, va tech, oregon, arizona, this particular incident) from obtaining firearms.

and I don't mean to sound downtrodden or pessimisstic and I know it's not a valid "arguement", but these people....for whatever reason...they wanted to do a lot of damage...and if guns weren't available, they would have found a way, somehow, to inflict that same hatred/confusion/whatever towards the same (or maybe a different) group of folks.

Also, I feel that if there were more controls on guns, that more shit would just go underground (I liken this to the current deal with drugs).

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Come on Bills, that same argument has been used after every one of these mass shootings in the past 50 years. All the gun lobby people and militia-men start screeming "it's too early to have this debate" and the debate never happens. It's not too fuckin' early, the debate should have happened in 1966. So maybe it's too early to have this discussion about this one incident; however, the debate is long overdue on the rest of them... more than 60 in the past 30 years.

You're so right, but I think the heart of what bills is saying is that after these things happen, everyone is suddenly all up in arms (uhh, so to speak) about changing laws because of the sensation being fed to them by the media, but once they're tired of hearing about it, they promptly forget about it and assume that someone took care of things. Most people go back to their lives (and why shouldn't they?) and nothing ends up happening. Obviously it's an immensely compounded issue, and nobody really has a viable suggestion for even beginning to disarm the American people, least not in a way that could make any foreseeable difference to this generation of voters.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On You're so right, but I think the heart of what bills is saying is that after these things happen, everyone is suddenly all up in arms (uhh, so to speak) about changing laws because of the sensation being fed to them by the media, but once they're tired of hearing about it, they promptly forget about it and assume that someone took care of things. Most people go back to their lives (and why shouldn't they?) and nothing ends up happening. Obviously it's an immensely compounded issue, and nobody really has a viable suggestion for even beginning to disarm the American people, least not in a way that could make any foreseeable difference to this generation of voters.

Hal, you are now my personal translator.

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Originally posted by tubularbills but isn't always the same result? some mentally unstable person got a hold of some weapons and shot up the place and (generally speaking) killed themselves afterwards. I'm not trying to be a douche about this, but isn't the issue the mentally unstabled person, and not the gun itself?

The debate need not be limited to gun control... there are a whole lot of things that should be discussed; however, gun control is a good first step as a measure to reasonably mitigate the impact of mentally unstable people loosing it with violent intent. Of course guns aren't the problem but the ease of access to fire arms, particularly fire arms with large capacity and the ability to fire rapidly exacerbate the problem resulting in a higher magnitude of damages due to these incidents and a greater number of instances.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard The debate need not be limited to gun control... there are a whole lot of things that should be discussed; however, gun control is a good first step as a measure to reasonably mitigate the impact of mentally unstable people loosing it with violent intent. Of course guns aren't the problem but the ease of access to fire arms, particularly fire arms with large capacity and the ability to fire rapidly exacerbate the problem resulting in a higher magnitude of damages due to these incidents and a greater number of instances.

Agreed. and I'm sure the NRA and other lobbyists are a major factor that there hasn't been any kind of "gun reform" in this country. much like other issues that have major players in them.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On You're so right, but I think the heart of what bills is saying is that after these things happen, everyone is suddenly all up in arms (uhh, so to speak) about changing laws because of the sensation being fed to them by the media, but once they're tired of hearing about it, they promptly forget about it and assume that someone took care of things. Most people go back to their lives (and why shouldn't they?) and nothing ends up happening. Obviously it's an immensely compounded issue, and nobody really has a viable suggestion for even beginning to disarm the American people, least not in a way that could make any foreseeable difference to this generation of voters.

That's exactly why they make the argument that its too soon to have the debate; they know that the debate will not happen if not now. In turn, I argue that this is exactly when the debate should happen... sure, let's leave Newtown out of it, we can focus on any of the mass shootings since Wittman but for fucks sake, at least have a rational discussion about it.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/..._n_2315070.html

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On Saturday, Westboro Baptist Church spokesperson Shirley Phelps-Roper tweeted that the group would be protesting the vigil in Newtown, Conn., to "sing praise to God for the glory of his work in executing his judgment." Anonymous apparently vowed retaliation as part of #OpWestBor in a video posted to Vimeo under the handle KY Anonymous. "We will not allow you to corrupt the minds of America with your seeds of hatred," says the voice-over in the video. "We will not allow you to inspire aggression to the social factions which you deem inferior. We will render you obsolete. We will destroy you. We are coming." On Sunday, Anonymous posted to Pastebin a list of data that it claimed belonged to Westboro members. The data included names, street addresses, phone numbers and email addresses, according to CNET.

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Originally posted by OrangestO This isn't about physics, this is about waves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protec...rce_in_Arms_Act

Hmh.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Carrying guns is a weak thing to do. Real Men don't fear every stranger and need a pussy gun under the bed.

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Originally posted by tubularbills Its not guns that are the issue, its the gays. http://www.salon.com/2012/12/17/huc...wtown_massacre/

Y'up, that makes sense, all doze gays in renowned gay cities around the world just love shootin people up. Sydney is bad ass.