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Originally posted by culorut Government Apologists Keep Moving the Goal Posts Folks who are trying to defend the government's version of 9/11 have continuously moved the goal posts: - Initially, the government apologists pretended that everyone believed the "official story" of 9/11 - Then, when the family members of the victims and every day Americans started publicly question the government's story, they said "but, all of the experts confirm the government" - Then, when hundreds of top experts in relevant fields - military officials, intelligence officers, physicists, chemists, mathematicians, etc. - publicly questioned the government's story, they said "well, no structural engineers question 9/11" - Then, when numerous structural engineers decided to risk their careers to question the official version of events, they said "yeah, but no criticism of the government's claims has been published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal" - Then, when papers began to be published in peer-reviewed scientific journals, they scrambled with new arguments . . . They keep moving the goal posts, which is a sign of dishonesty. Its the old bait-and-switch - come up with one argument, and when it is shot down as false, make up a new one. Indeed, if Bush, Cheney, and Rummie all confessed under oath that they carried out 9/11, the defenders of the official version would probably try to move the goal posts yet again: "true, but no one checked to see if they had their fingers crossed behind their backs at the time. And they've been under alot of stress recently. Maybe they've suffered from short-term memory loss. And you don't have any video actually showing them ordering the stand down, do you?! Why should we believe you if you don't have video of them doing it?!" http://georgewashington2.blogspot.c...oving-goal.html

fuck youre a halfwit.

where's the peer reviewed PAPER that supports controlled demolition again? oh that's right. you have a letter. a letter which is published in an online vanity journal. a letter that agrees with NIST.

fuckhead.

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Originally posted by culorut A bit pissed at the truth are you? Oh well.

no im a bit pissed that ISP's dont require and IQ test to qualify for internet access......

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

some more info concerning the journal letter.

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Dr. Jeng responded to my e-mail promptly, and he is looking into it. I'm not going to reprint his entire e-mail, but there are two interesting points. One is that before he took over the publication, the publishers handled all submissions rather than the editors. He's correctly insisting that all publications must go through the editors. This paper did not. The other point is that he was alerted to this paper by another respondent a week ago, tried to find out who the reviewers were at that time, and still hasn't gotten the answer. As expected, Dr. Jeng seems to be handling this professionally, and he has my full support. We'll see how this turns out, but I think we've found the source of the problem.

what a joke. but it won't stop those lacking an education (like cretinrot) from believing they have a peer reviewed article. im constantly amazed at how dumb the truthers can be.

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This thread will come characterize the PDD for years to come...

I voted No, when I was a neocon...Then my views changed radically, and I questioned 911 for a bit, then moderated in the absence of any solid evidence. The only thing I advocate is independent commission. What 911 did however do is give neocons the chance to go on a crusade to transform the Middle East into a region friendly to US interests. In that aim, I hope the Islamists route the crusaders. I am all for the Mahdi Army, Hezbollah, Hamas, and Iran. Only thru' resistance to the Western Alliance will they realize that their domination of the Middle East is over.

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Last edited by Krypton on May-03-2008 at 17:11

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Originally posted by Krypton This thread will come characterize the PDD for years to come... I voted No, when I was a neocon...Then my views changed radically, and I questioned 911 for a bit, then moderated in the absence of any solid evidence. The only thing I advocate is independent commission. What 911 did however do is give neocons the chance to go on a crusade to transform the Middle East into a region friendly to US interests. In that aim, I hope the Islamists route the crusaders. I am all for the Mahdi Army, Hezbollah, Hamas, and Iran. Only thru' resistance to the Western Alliance will they realize that their domination of the Middle East is over.

i'm not for the war either, but at the same time i'm not supporting the killing of my fellow countrymen. you need to seriously wake up and think about what the fuck you just said.

Furthermore, your position essentially supports war, albeit on the other side. that doesn't solve the problem either.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 i'm not for the war either, but at the same time i'm not supporting the killing of my fellow countrymen. you need to seriously wake up and think about what the fuck you just said.

I'm not advocating the killing of my countrymen. I am in support of the Islamist causes in the Middle East, exceptions being Al-Qaida...

My responsibility isn't to support their cause though. My responsibility is get our countrymen back home and safe so there won't be a need for a resistance to occupation. If we are to occupy their lands, then we should expect resistance to crop up and slowly bleed our military until we bankrupt our treasury fighting fucking insurgents in the middle of the desert...

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 Furthermore, your position essentially supports war, albeit on the other side. that doesn't solve the problem either.

So we are to occupy other nation's land, and not expect a resistance? Come on man...Every occupation has a resistance...

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Originally posted by Krypton So we are to occupy other nation's land, and not expect a resistance? Come on man...Every occupation has a resistance...

no, i certainly would expect resistance but that doesn't mean i support it (or that i support invasion, because i don't support either). you, on the other hand, said, and i quote: "I hope the Islamists route the crusaders. I am all for the Mahdi Army, Hezbollah, Hamas, and Iran. Only thru' resistance to the Western Alliance will they realize that their domination of the Middle East is over"

that's straight bullshit. how can the islamists route the crusaders without killing our countrymen? if you support the islamists, you implictly support the killing of american soldiers. there is no other way about it. you can't support their resistance against american soldiers, where their main resistance tactic is to kill american soldiers, and not support the killing of american soldiers. It doesn't follow logically. you are either being too loose with your words or you truly are supporting the death of americans. that's it!!! you can't back out of that.

EDIT: what makes that comment even more irresponsible is that i'm sure you know someone from high school that is now serving in the middle east. i invite you to say that to anyone you know that has served there. whether you agree with the reason for going to war is irrelevant because your position is not against war (because you are aligning yourself with a resistance cause - which is still war), and furthermore, your position is against each individual soldier on the ground.

Last edited by jerZ07002 on May-03-2008 at 17:57

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 i'm not for the war either, but at the same time i'm not supporting the killing of my fellow countrymen. you need to seriously wake up and think about what the fuck you just said. Furthermore, your position essentially supports war, albeit on the other side. that doesn't solve the problem either.

He didnt say anything wrong.Let me guess you think he is not American by saying things like that right?

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 no, i certainly would expect resistance but that doesn't mean i support it (or that i support invasion, because i don't support either). you, on the other hand, said, and i quote: "I hope the Islamists route the crusaders. I am all for the Mahdi Army, Hezbollah, Hamas, and Iran. Only thru' resistance to the Western Alliance will they realize that their domination of the Middle East is over" that's straight bullshit. how can the islamists route the crusaders without killing our countrymen? if you support the islamists, you implictly support the killing of american soldiers. there is no other way about it. you can't support their resistance against american soldiers, where their main resistance tactic is to kill american soldiers, and not support the killing of american soldiers. It doesn't follow logically. you are either being too loose with your words or you truly are supporting the death of americans. that's it!!! you can't back out of that. EDIT: what makes that comment even more irresponsible is that i'm sure you know someone from high school that is now serving in the middle east. i invite you to say that to anyone you know that has served there. whether you agree with the reason for going to war is irrelevant because your position is not against war (because you are aligning yourself with a resistance cause - which is still war), and furthermore, your position is against each individual soldier on the ground.

If we are to be aggressive occupiers, then yes, I hope they route the hell out of our military. I don't want to live in an empire. I want to live in the America I was taught about in school. The America people don't hate. We are a hated country. If we could withdraw today, that would be great. I don't want anymore death. But guess what, as long as we occupy their country, there will be death of our soldiers. And for what? Bush's vision of democracy? That is the agenda I hope gets the shit kicked out of it. Sadly, it will take more death for us to realize the futility of carrying out this imperialist agenda.

Yes I am American, but I will not support our troops simply out of patriotism, blind to the destruction we are causing to innocent people. That is where I support their resistance. I look upon them as freedom fighters, not terrorists. And guess what. No soldiers would be dying if we weren't there. I know... it's hard for war apologists to accept that...

My father served two tours in Iraq AND Afghanistan. I haven't seen him in 3 years. I straight up tell him that I think we are imperialists and all that. He is a conservative. He certainly disagrees with me saying we are imperialists. But he does not agree with the Iraq War. He also always compares our current situation in America with the decline of the Roman Empire.

Would I tell him, I hope the resistance routes the Americans out of Iraq? Yes I would. Would he be strongly against this. HELL YES. Now if we withdraw, no need for a route... The Islamic Revolution of Iraq will occur. The Americans are trying to suppress it. But they will not. They need to just withdraw.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer He didnt say anything wrong.Let me guess you think he is not American by saying things like that right?

I assume he is american being he is from florida and he said he has a responsibilty to get americans home. i don't question his 'american[ism]' just his judgement.

perhaps you should read what he wrote. He wants the islamists (the insurgents) to route out the crusaders (US military). How exactly can the insurrgents route out the crusaders without killing them? It's clear the islamists main tactic to route out the 'crusaders' is using road side bombs and car bombs, which are obviously meant to injure and kill.

supporting the withdrawal of american forces from iraq and supporting the islamists in their quest to force americans out of iraq are clearly not the same thing. I support the first option, but i absolutely do not support the second one. Krypton, on the other hand, supports the second option.