quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant but it's okay when it continues in Israel? And in that statement you're also implying a justification for terror, but nevermind..i guess i'll never make people understand that terror is not a logical consequence of a certain status or behavior.

maybe you should read a little bit better, I never said that it is OK that it happens in Israel

and yeah, terrorism can happen because of someone's status or behavior... Why the hell do you think 9-11 happened?? I believe it happened because America does stuff that muslims don't like (behaviour...). And they are the most powerful nation in the world and act like it and a lot of people don't like that either (status??)

___________________
Alsof Het G*dverdomme Himmel Niks Kost!!!

I became an expert when it comes to reading between lines. Sometimes my paranoia outweighs that though

"Explaining" 9-11 would take a lot of time. To make it short....Osama Bin Laden cleverly used 2 masks to "justify" his attacks:

1, Religious conviction ('the Holy War of Islam')
2, Political ambitions ("Punish" the US for their presence in the middle east and support for Israel)

Both are lies. OBL is neither a religious man, nor fighting to achieve political goals: He just hates, he is fanatic, he is fundamentalistic and misuses/misunderstands Islam, he is a fscist who wants maximal power. The only rational aspect in his "motivation" is probably the ignorance or fear of the Western culture. Again frsutration and inferiority complexes make him obsessively reject any change of "his" Arab/Muslim culture. He's afraif of Freedom and Democracy, he wouldn't be worth a penny in such systems. A loser, unfortunately very manipulating and smart.

___________________
"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Occrider: No doubt the US has done a lot of good over the years. In fact, if it wasn't for US involvement in WW2, I'd probably be speaking Japanese right now (the Japanese had made it down to PNG and were bombing Darwin before the US got involved) so yes, thank you Roosevelt for coming to Australia's aid, I'm sure we all appreciate it. Nonetheless, does that mean that I am obliged to sit back and applaud everything the US does? Does it seem logical to you that criticising the actions of the present government means that, in any way, I am against the US and everything it's done? No, not at all. The reason you see a lot of criticism of the American government from me at the moment, is not because I'm anti-US or I have some deficiency that does not allow me to see the good things the US does, it's because - let's face it - you have a chimpanzee squatting in the whitehouse. I, honestly, cannot think of one good thing he has done either for the rest of the world or, indeed, for his own country. There was that pledge to grant money for research into alternative energy sources, but I'll applaud that when the money acually comes through. So, in short, I do not hate the US, the US has done a lot of good for the world, but until Bush and those hateful men pulling his strings are out of the whitehouse, don't expect me to be throwing a whole lot of praise in your nation's direction.

Arbiter ... you are correct it is you're. I was quite drunk when I posted this Surprised I was relatively coherent as I was.

Anyway Renegade, this thread isn't critisizing those who may disagree with American foreign policy. This thread is just a reminder to some of us Americans about the GOOD things our country has done for the world becuase that is very rarely discussed. Everybody focuses on the bad.

Last edited by occrider on Apr-10-2003 at 17:00

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper I always thought it was Russia who got huge defecits for combating US military spending,not the other way around...? Anyway,thanks for bringing us so much incredible music We'll forgive you for MTV for now

Oh we both did. Military spending during the Reagan years were insane. It's one reason why we have a trillion dollar debt. Russia simply could not compete with the spending and is part of the reason why their economy collapsed forcing glasnost, political change, etc. The point is is that we nearly destroyed our economy to always be one step ahead of the Soviets.

I think nuclear submarines broke their back! They simply could not compete with the technology and the cost that goes into Ohio and Los Angeles class submarines! Although they did try with the typhoon class

As most of you "anti-americans" said, I too do recongize all the good things America has done for the world, and I must admit not many other countries would do the same. But the truth is that the US is often taking actions that are not good for the global community, and those actions should be condemned.

As renegade said, the only good thing Bush has so far done is investment into alternative energy research. But that too is very questionable, since alternative energie sources aren't producing sufficient enough amounts of energy to be used at power plants, so they can only be used for transportation. Currently, the most likely future way of propulsion for vehicles is electric power, as hydrogen and other possibilities have more or less fell out of the picture, since they still have many serious problems. Those vehicles would have to get their engines charged from the current power plants. Currently, about 20% of the US power plants are nuclear power plants which produce no pollution. About 30% are petroleum and natural gas based power plants, and about 55% are the coal power plants. Coal power produces more pollution than gas or petroleum power. Now since all those electric cars will be charged at power plants, those power plants should burn larger amounts of fuel to charge them. And since most of the US power is coal-based, it looks like electric cars will only decrease amount of burned petroleum and increase amount of burned coal, which will in turn cause even more pollution. Add to that the fact that the old nuclear power plants are being closed up and that new ones aren't constructed and the amount of coal and petroleum power plants will only increase. So the only way electric cars could decrease overall pollution is to construct new clean and non-polluting nuclear power plants and abandon the old and polluting coal plants. If you keep using the current power plants to fuel those cars, you are only achieving the opposite of what is intended.

PS. sorry for going a bit off-topic.

___________________
1+1=10

i think indeed we all owe alot to the US in many ways..movies,music,culture etc the list is endless hell even sadam himslef likes american culture as his favourite movie is the godfather..so many thanks are entitled to the US..i think a big part of US hatred is its success and the arrogance it might show for being the best. if you offer any person who hates the US a greencard and a chance to live in the US he will take it in a heartbeat, if you talk to those anti american people you will find em wearing american jeans and eating at Mcdonalds..so the hipocracy is redicilous sometimes..The US politics is not always agreed upon as sometimes it acts more twords its best intrest but last time check the US isnt the mommy of the world..and the world would be a mess if the US was not to involve itself with the world issues. Everybody has the right to disagree but there is no reason for utter hate..try to compare the good with the bad first amd then make your conclusion.

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic i think indeed we all owe alot to the US in many ways..movies,music,culture etc the list is endless hell even sadam himslef likes american culture as his favourite movie is the godfather..so many thanks are entitled to the US..i think a big part of US hatred is its success and the arrogance it might show for being the best. if you offer any person who hates the US a greencard and a chance to live in the US he will take it in a heartbeat, if you talk to those anti american people you will find em wearing american jeans and eating at Mcdonalds..so the hipocracy is redicilous sometimes..The US politics is not always agreed upon as sometimes it acts more twords its best intrest but last time check the US isnt the mommy of the world..and the world would be a mess if the US was not to involve itself with the world issues. Everybody has the right to disagree but there is no reason for utter hate..try to compare the good with the bad first amd then make your conclusion.

And I think that the US can be able to creat such great things is because of the diversity the US has and the many talented imigrants that flok to the US as well. The US pulls the smartests brains in the world, and ofcourse, the US gives them a good economic status. So is all in between, the people that make this country what it is, a melting smart ass pot. So is ironic how people from other countries make what the US is today.. the names are countless. Really, I don't know what you call anti-americanism.. if someone disagrees with one of this nations actions, or better said, the governments actions, does it mean one is anti-american just by not agreeing with any of this actions?!?!?! .. Sometimes I feel so mad when people call others "unpatriotic" just by not backing up the actions this country is doing, which I think is just an opinion a person must express, this is a republic, and popular sovereignty, people elect the leaders, the leaders listen what the people want.. and the people do their jobs by showing what they want.

___________________
Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

quote:

Originally posted by LiquidX And I think that the US can be able to creat such great things is because of the diversity the US has and the many talented imigrants that flok to the US as well. The US pulls the smartests brains in the world, and ofcourse, the US gives them a good economic status. So is all in between, the people that make this country what it is, a melting smart ass pot. So is ironic how people from other countries make what the US is today.. the names are countless. Really, I don't know what you call anti-americanism.. if someone disagrees with one of this nations actions, or better said, the governments actions, does it mean one is anti-american just by not agreeing with any of this actions?!?!?! .. Sometimes I feel so mad when people call others "unpatriotic" just by not backing up the actions this country is doing, which I think is just an opinion a person must express, this is a republic, and popular sovereignty, people elect the leaders, the leaders listen what the people want.. and the people do their jobs by showing what they want.

Exactly, America has probably one of the most diverse cultures that I'm aware of in the world. And the fact that we welcome diversity rather than limit it is amazing in itself. Many people envision America as a white, protestant, christian only culture but the fact is that it is estimated that in the next decade or so, the white population will become the minority in America! And we aren't scared by it or trying to reverse that. I used to be pissed off that we never declared English as the official language of America. I actually now relish in the fact that we don't have an official language. That any language or culture has an equal voice in our society.

I don't know if this is still going on, but way back when I used to live in Europe, I remember there were strong anti-minority sentiments in much of Europe, especially France and Germany. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but neo-nazism was on the rise in Germany a few years back and the French were particularly discriminatory against Africans and what not. Again I dont mean to offend anybody but that was the mood that I sensed at the time.

Not that that kind of things doesn't happen in America but I think that we do a pretty damned good job in maintaining an open atmosphere.

Edit: btw I think Canada is just as good as the US if not better with respects to an open, inviting society. When I visited Toronto a few times it seemed one of the most diverse cities I've ever visited. Maybe only surpassed by New York.

Appreciated!

PS I'd put London up there as the most diverse city along with NYC. IMO, London is a lot better integrated though

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic if you offer any person who hates the US a greencard and a chance to live in the US he will take it in a heartbeat

heck! ill take one and i dont even hate the US... gimme a greencard, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!

___________________
If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

I'd also like to take the time to show appreciation for a few others:

Thank you Britain!!!! Our strongest ally through thick and thin!

Thank you Canada!!! Our strongest trading partner over the years!

Thank you NATO! Without such strong ties who knows what could have heppend during the cold war.

Seriously, the relationship between the Americas and Europe during the Cold War is an example that should be followed by the rest of the world. Although we may be in disagreement now, we are all still deomocratic nations that strive to make the world a better place for everybody. Yes we all do things that are in our best interests but don't forget where global humanitarian well-being originated from ... Europe and the United States.