ahlamalek your an idiot! No other way to put it.

The European’s did not want to build an army after WWII their countries were decimated. They had neither the money nor the logistics to put together a centralized army. Western Europe had been willing to live under the umbrella of the United States against the threat of the Soviet Union. Indeed, the US and Western Europe formed the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) in 1949 to provide the security apparatus ready to defend mainland Europe against a possible Soviet invasion. As with the First and Second World Wars, the US's assistance was vital. This time, however, the US was needed to ensure that peace and stability remained in Western Europe. The US had to ensure that liberal Western Europe did not become swamped by communism in the same way that fascism had.

Also in the 90s, as you so incorrectly put it, the European’s did not intend to build an army. The emphasis was on crisis management and conflict prevention in multi-national operations like those mounted in Bosnia and Kosovo. If a conventional war happens in Western Europe, the WEU will continue to work alongside and subordinate to NATO as it still remains the main apparatus capable of mounting offensive military operations. It wasn’t until 20 November 2000 that the European Union Defence Ministers met in Brussels and agreed to the creation of a EU Rapid Reaction Force.

Only now that their’s a single currency in Europe is it a proper European Union and the hopes of building a single military be achieved.

quote:

your article takes something that started in the past and makes it relative to something that just happened (France and Germany disagreeing with the US) to portray those 2 countries as bad and what not

And to this, I simply reply this happened on Tuesday, May 27, 2003. This is new and cutting edge news.

And finally my post neither takes a pro-american nor a pro-european side. I'm simply raising the discussion that our political leaders are idiots and learned nothing from the last 30 years. The cold war between American and Russia nearly saw the launch of nuclear weapons at least 6 times. You would think by now we would have learned our lesson.

The next time you want to have a debate with me come equipped with facts and not you bullshit rhetoric, it’s starting to get old. Besides shouldn’t you be losing a debate to occrider on another thread I started.

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"If we are to achieve greatness in life, we must live as though we were never going to die" - ?

quote:

Originally posted by trintiy You might want to aim you thank you toward French President Jacques Chirac and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder!

Ok, I'm sick of this goddamn French bashing. France and Germany voiced their views on the war because they LOOKED AHEAD INTO WHAT WILL OCCUR IN THE FUTURE! Seriously, look at this deep shit the U.S. is into now: we have to maintain peace in a country on the brink of anarchy AND renew our affairs with other countries that wanted to avoid war. It is Bush's fault for all of this. HE ruined foreign policy for the U.S. And as a result, all the Americans that we call the "lowest common denominator" began bashing these countries. It's getting plenty worse as a result. With all the boycotting, France has already lost over $500 million in exports and 1/4 of its tourism. If we want to stabilize the global economy and among other things get the U.S. out of its recession, we need to work with other countries; otherwise, we will all fall.

quote:

trintiy And finally my post neither takes a pro-american nor a pro-european side. I'm simply raising the discussion that our political leaders are idiots and learned nothing from the last 30 years. The cold war between American and Russia nearly saw the launch of nuclear weapons at least 6 times. You would think by now we would have learned our lesson.

Well said, I totally agree. It seems as if we haven't.

quote:

Originally posted by Galapidate Ok, I'm sick of this goddamn French bashing. France and Germany voiced their views on the war because they LOOKED AHEAD INTO WHAT WILL OCCUR IN THE FUTURE! Seriously, look at this deep shit the U.S. is into now: we have to maintain peace in a country on the brink of anarchy AND renew our affairs with other countries that wanted to avoid war. It is Bush's fault for all of this. HE ruined foreign policy for the U.S. And as a result, all the Americans that we call the "lowest common denominator" began bashing these countries. It's getting plenty worse as a result. With all the boycotting, France has already lost over $500 million in exports and 1/4 of its tourism. If we want to stabilize the global economy and among other things get the U.S. out of its recession, we need to work with other countries; otherwise, we will all fall.

Galapidate I agree with the spirit of your post. However, trinity was not bashing France nor Germany. He was simply pointing out exactly what I have quoted from his previous post.

I agree that a lot of Americans are really too nationalistic for the good of the planet. Hurting France's economy like that is not a one-way street. For every action there is a reaction - the recession in the US isn't going to get any better. Or something else will backfire. But whatever it is, backfire it will. I think Americans need to learn one lesson badly, above all other lessons:

No one nation is or ever was "invincible" and no one nation ever lasted forever.

Once people start realizing the truth of that, maybe some cooperation can come about in the world. (Make no mistake, this applies to everyone)

Ah, alright I should've checked. I just thought he was another France basher.

Galapidate I have a question for you. How many countries have you visited outside the U.S since the whole war thing began?

I'm an American and my wife is British, we currently live in England and are both extremely well travelled. I've got news for you America is not the only country at fault for ruining international relations.

During the war we visited Austria, and Paris for a short holiday and the news media in those countries bashed American and Americans left right and center. While the Austrian people were polite to us, the Parisians were anything but.

Don't be so naive to think America stands on top of this pedestal looking down at people and that we are the only country that can be nationalistic and vindictive. It takes more than one stubborn politician to ruin international relations.

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"If we are to achieve greatness in life, we must live as though we were never going to die" - ?

stayed tuned for World War 3: Germany goes for 3rd time lucky!

and

World War 3: Do we really have to bail the french out, again?


have a nice day.

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c o n : f u s e d

^You seem to forget that without help from the French during the Revolutionary War the U.S. wouldn't exist. France has not been a total failure in every war it has fought.

Where's the common enemy when you need it?


...


Oh North Koreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeea, step over here for a sec

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Check My Music

quote:

Originally posted by trintiy Galapidate I have a question for you. How many countries have you visited outside the U.S since the whole war thing began? I'm an American and my wife is British, we currently live in England and are both extremely well travelled. I've got news for you America is not the only country at fault for ruining international relations. During the war we visited Austria, and Paris for a short holiday and the news media in those countries bashed American and Americans left right and center. While the Austrian people were polite to us, the Parisians were anything but. Don't be so naive to think America stands on top of this pedestal looking down at people and that we are the only country that can be nationalistic and vindictive. It takes more than one stubborn politician to ruin international relations.

I usesd to live in Vienna and Brussels long before any of this war crap started and I agree with your analyses even back then. Some of this resentment was not newly created in recent times.

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Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by occrider I usesd to live in Vienna and Brussels long before any of this war crap started and I agree with your analyses even back then. Some of this resentment was not newly created in recent times.

True. When I lived in Vienna (1998-2001), there were constant protests and demonstrations in front of the Parliament building. Often, there were American flags burning, and large "Bush dolls" being beaten and being lit up.

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It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 True. When I lived in Vienna (1998-2001), there were constant protests and demonstrations in front of the Parliament building. Often, there were American flags burning, and large "Bush dolls" being beaten and being lit up.

Wow ... somebody else from Wien ... nice. Anyway I was in Wien (Salmansdorf area by the American International School of Vienna) from 1995-1997 and in Brussels from 1992-1995. I've been all over Western Europe and most of Eastern Europe and my experiences has been wierd. Over much of western Europe there seems to be a lot of anti-american resentment (except for Germany oddly enough) whereas over the eastern European nations my family had been graciously welcomed as visitors. Despite my pro-Americanism, Vienna is the best city on Earth and I will move there as soon as I can afford to!!!

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Retro ...

I've never been to Austria. Hell, I've never been further into Europe than France! I wouldn't mind a binge in Ibiza for a week or so!