Wow great post, couldn't have said it better myself

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Whatever style you love, you will always think that style is far superior to othe styles. Do you realise that every single hip-hopper, rocker, whatever thinks about their loved genre the exactly same way? Everything is equal. Only tastes differ.

Speaking of music as music and not "music" with vocals in it, electronic music is uniqe. Rap depends very much on it's lyrics and not much of the music, hard rock, can't vary to much either, i mean they have like 5 instruments to go aroud with, how big different can that be? And all hard rock texts are like hadfdsjldsfljksfdljkfdslkjsfdalkjsfd (just screaming...)

In someway we just have to make people relize what kind of shit they actually listening to!

Excellent argument but at the end of the day no-one is right about which type of music "is the best". Although quite frankly it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

But you can easily argue against the cause of electronic... e.g It lacks the raw soul of some genres. Can the emotion and mood of a guy with an acoustic guitar playing and singing to a live audience be matched by a guy who sequences his sounds using a computer and then exports his track? Some be argue that electronic has more emotion, due to the way it is "crafted", which is a perfectly valid opinion. You might say it lacks the actual musical performance ability, i.e the ability to play and manipulate your own instruments in real time. Although not always the case with quite a few artists.

So there are some things which electronic music cannot compete with. That does not stop it from being my favourite genre though

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Originally posted by St_Andrew Wow great post, couldn't have said it better myself Speaking of music as music and not "music" with vocals in it, electronic music is uniqe. Rap depends very much on it's lyrics and not much of the music, hard rock, can't vary to much either, i mean they have like 5 instruments to go aroud with, how big different can that be? And all hard rock texts are like hadfdsjldsfljksfdljkfdslkjsfdalkjsfd (just screaming...) In someway we just have to make people relize what kind of shit they actually listening to!

Who are we to say what music is shit and what isn't?
If they like it then it isn't shit obviously, otherwise they wouldn't like it. It may be shit to you and me but not to them and we have to respect that.

It saddens me to see that someone is so narrowminded that he/she is thinking someone else is listening to shit music and needs to be converted away from it.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Who are we to say what music is shit and what isn't? If they like it then it isn't shit obviously, otherwise they wouldn't like it. It may be shit to you and me but not to them and we have to respect that. It saddens me to see that someone is so narrowminded that he/she is thinking someone else is listening to shit music and needs to be converted away from it.

hehe i wasn't that serious with that last statement, but the truth is that i always try to convert my friends to trance, and most of them start to like trance after hearing some real good trance, some of them are real addicts now!

Imo, electronic music does offer more than other genres, simply because it can make more different sounds than all the other instruments combined. Unfortunately, the huge popularity of techno compared to the other genres shows just how much of that potential is being left unused.

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RESPECT of other music is essential.

I mean every genre has its shitty examples EVEN trance (as if that wasn't obvious)

The problem is that people rarely get to see the really good tracks except within their own choice genre.

Undoubtadly there are some excellent rap or hip hop tracks out there its just commercialisation means unless it is your favourite type you only really see the surface which tends to be the shitty crap with the attractive singer or memorable lyrics.

As i said, we need to repect other genres cos people looking from the outside thinks trance is shit to.

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Originally posted by Pheobius RESPECT of other music is essential. I mean every genre has its shitty examples EVEN trance (as if that wasn't obvious) The problem is that people rarely get to see the really good tracks except within their own choice genre. Undoubtadly there are some excellent rap or hip hop tracks out there its just commercialisation means unless it is your favourite type you only really see the surface which tends to be the shitty crap with the attractive singer or memorable lyrics. As i said, we need to repect other genres cos people looking from the outside thinks trance is shit to.

well said.

electronic music for me is very special and i hardly like any music that isn't electronic. but there is a lot of underground, not commercial non-electronic music that we should respect. saying 'my music is better than yours' doesn't go anywhere. it's a matter of taste, and opinion.

though the fact that music is so special to me, i try to 'convert' others into my kind of music.. but always keep some respect. don't force it, it's stupid.

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I love the debate!

Although, I never meant to portray that Electronic music is better than the other styles out there, I was just expressing the fact that Electronic music displays a very wide variety of music that can be enjoyed by almost anyone. Within the style itself, many artists repect and show love for what they are doing...

...personally, I enjoy trance music along w/ a lot of older music (hiphop, rock, 80's, etc). Its just that I feel at some point music went to a whole different state of being (MTV!). Its just a shame that a lot of the QUALITY music doesnt get much airplay. Thats basically where I came to the conclusion that electronic music in general pretty much stays consistent and always seems to be original (w/ the exception of some cheese )

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Who are we to say what music is shit and what isn't? If they like it then it isn't shit obviously, otherwise they wouldn't like it. It may be shit to you and me but not to them and we have to respect that. It saddens me to see that someone is so narrowminded that he/she is thinking someone else is listening to shit music and needs to be converted away from it.

100% Agree

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Originally posted by S2K Excellent argument but at the end of the day no-one is right about which type of music "is the best". Although quite frankly it doesn't matter at the end of the day. But you can easily argue against the cause of electronic... e.g It lacks the raw soul of some genres. Can the emotion and mood of a guy with an acoustic guitar playing and singing to a live audience be matched by a guy who sequences his sounds using a computer and then exports his track? Some be argue that electronic has more emotion, due to the way it is "crafted", which is a perfectly valid opinion. You might say it lacks the actual musical performance ability, i.e the ability to play and manipulate your own instruments in real time. Although not always the case with quite a few artists. So there are some things which electronic music cannot compete with. That does not stop it from being my favourite genre though

You said at the end of the day twice!

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This is so untrue. What is your definition of music? Hip hop is considered music, but differs from electronica in the sense that it does rely on vocals, yes, but it's still REAL music. If anything, electronica is considered the least from of pure music(even though I dont' think so) because of it's nature(synthesized sounds, sequneced beats etc...)

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i've often thought the same exact thing about other types of music being carried soley on the vocalist, when people tell me that electronic music is boring and repetative, I say go listen to rap or rock without the voacals and see how much you like the actual "music" of it. Electronic music is the only genre that where the actual music can stand on its on and not need the crutch of vocals to make it sound good

I completely agree with you, but that's also the weakest point of electronica...it's not organic, and will never have that true musical feel to it like classical, rock or hip hop. Hip hop does rely on lyrics, but the beats and style of the MC is essential too.

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Thats so true...thats why i hate rap...and i cant wait till its over and we can get back to electronic...Maybe its the culture that revolves around the rap world/persona that i dont personally fit into...but i hate it...so boring and the same beats over an over with boring vocal but shitty rap artists...

Normally, I'm very open to people stating their own opinions, and this is no exception. Maybe your loosley defining the term rap as something else other than hip hop. You have to realize that rap isn't a culture Hip Hop is, and rap is just a part of it.
People don't even say "I listen to rap" anymore...they say "hip hop". Maybe if you listened to some real hip hop like Gangstarr, J5, De La Soul, DJ Shadow you'll appreciate how much of an art hip hop is.
As far as the vocal and same beat statement you made..either hip hop's lyrical composition is too advanced for you, or you really have a genuine hate for hip hop, which is almost impossible if you heard any real street hip hop. How can you say "raps" lyrics are boring when you have geniuses like B.I.G and Jay-Z who freestyle every single one of their songs, yet still make perfect sense but accenuated with their own approach and delivery? Or how bout Dead prez and Talib Kweli who spit on real issues like poverty, unemployment, war and so on?
I think you need to open your eyes to some real hip hop then comeback and post. Try reading my quote by none other than Talib hmself, and realize that this is just a sample of what real hip hop's message is.

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Originally posted by Arsondude2.0 WHERE DID THE BEASTIE BOYS GO TO ANYWAY...

They are working on a new album now, I can't wait!

Edit: And there is rock and hip-hop that do not rely on vocals at all. Check out DJ Shadow or DJ Krush for instrumental hip-hop, and for rock that doesn't necessarily rely on vocals, Sigur Ros. Pop music has lots of vocals because it's easy to become a popular band/singer if you have a catchy hook/chorus.

Last edited by TheTornado on Aug-16-2003 at 19:33