quote:

Originally posted by chesco christ the guy played 30 minutes of football against an average bolton side. lets pass judgement when he starts beating the likes of maldini or campbell with that ease.

I agree completely. The guy looked promising but people are jumping the gun. He played 30 minutes against a tiring Bolton defence and was given a free role, a luxury he won't have against serious opposition. Those dancing tricks will grow old fast, we've seen a lot of players come to the Premiership and try it on and a lot of them end up playing in Europe because it suits their style more. Ronaldo might just be one of those players.

If he can take crunching tackles from players like Campbell and Desailly and still keep his chin up I'll be very impressed, but until he faces the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea we won't know his full potential. I get the feeling he will be hurling himself on the floor very often and that is far more frowned on here than in Europe. Don't be surprised if some defenders give him a good kicking. He doesn't look like the sort of player to track back either which could be a problem in the Premiership. I think he'll be an excellent asset for Champions League games though.

Last edited by evil_bastard on Aug-19-2003 at 01:10

i think hes gonna get a hard time by most defenders in the premiership, i mean i can see danny mills killing this guy if he manages too does something off the same against him.
not that i rate danny mills that highly.

but seriously he seemed too show only one move, and if thats his only attribute then defenders are gonna pick up on him quickly. he isnt strong enough too cope with the likes of most of the players in the premiership.

but he did impress me with the flair he brought too the match.

my 2 cents

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Originally posted by DJ_Laszlo Maldini belongs in a schampoo-comercial with 98% of all the other italian football divas... And Campbell? eeeh...?

that doesn't take away from the fact he was the best defender in the world for many a year.

now go and learn a little about footbal instead of raving on about a player you've hardly seen playing.

quote:

Originally posted by evil_bastard Bolton played well but were sloppy towards the end defensively. Naturally people jump to the conclusion that Ronaldo changed the game but Bolton were tiring, it was the first match of the season after all. It wasn't quite the thrashing that the scoreline suggests, so I do feel sorry for Bolton. Obviously Scholes was offside, and frankly Ronaldo shouldn't have got a penalty because he made such a bloody meal of a simple shirt-tugging. If anything refs should be booking people like that, foreign flair in our league is good but if they start behaving like sly little bastards they should be booked without hesitation. If Bolton had converted some of their earlier chances they could have defended and grinded out a draw. Man U looked very dangerous coming forward, but I thought they looked a little exposed at the back, letting Bolton have so many chances. A more clinical strike force would have tucked those away and whilst Man Utd have enjoyed a good pre-season they have conceded in virtually every match. Ronaldo looks like one of the most exciting prospects around at the moment, but I'd have to see more of him in the Premiership first. He had bags of pace and determination but let's not forget the lad only played 30 mins. Let's see him keep that pace up for 90 minutes in the fastest league around before we get carried away. Also, he had bags of flair but if he keeps trying the same stunts then sooner or later defenders will know how to cope with him. I don't look forward to him playing against us, espescially with our obvious weakness on the right. Maybe a few crunch tackles from Bowyer will put him in his place

Yeh, I think the 4-0 flattered them, it was only 1-0 for a long time, and when u go down 2-0 u have to try get one back.

Also we play Riccy at left back who's more of a winger and not so good a defender plus Nicky Hunt, a 19 y/o was debuting at right back, and i think it's harsh to call us for it, it's no shame losing 4-0 to talent like that, tho it does make me laugh how many man utd fans aren't even in england let alone manchester, just marketing for them and they have far too much money to spend compared to us who've put a full team up for a fraction of what they spent on one guy

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Originally posted by aatariq Offsides are called when the attacking team benefits from a player in an offside position.

Scholes was offside when the ball was played to him and when the deflection came from RVN, the linesman made a mistake. To try and retrospectively excuse an assist when a player is blatantly offside by suggesting it was a bad pass is absolutely farcical, by that token we could justify virtually any offside.

Not that it matters as Bolton lost by 4 goals anyway, but come on if that was Craig Bellamy or Michael Owen the flag would have been straight up.

Last edited by evil_bastard on Aug-19-2003 at 15:46

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Originally posted by aatariq Ok I saw the penalty appeal again and to say that Ronaldo "made a meal" of it is silly (and born from anti-manu in my opinion). I play semi-professional soccer and the most annoying thing that unskilled players get away with is dirty fouls like tugging your shirt. There's nothing worse than getting pegged back on a break-away. He was obviously pulled badly and if he had stayed on his feet the ball would have either gone for a goal kick or cleared by the last defender. No penalty would have been given although a foul was obviously committed. It's a different matter all together (and disgusting too) when you fall on a non-existent foul (eg. the whole Porto team vs Celtic) but if I were in Ronaldo's shoes I would have hit the deck like he did. It's like appealing for a lbw in cricket. If you don't call it you won't get it.

"born from anti-manu in my opinion"

The guy's only played 30 minutes for Man U. Might your opinion be born out of pro-Man U opinion? If anything mine is born out of a disgust with foreign players coming here and throwing themselves onto the floor all the time. On this occasion he was fouled, but I didn't like the reaction I saw.

You're missing the point, which is that this guy looks like he's set to become a persistent diver. We've only seen 30 minutes of him so I'll have to see a bit more of him, but that is my gut feeling. Can you honestly foresee this wee Portuguese 18 year old riding tackles from players like Sol Campbell?! I expect most of us here play "soccer" (it's football actually) so there's no need to explain it to us. We've watched years of the Premiership and seen players like this come and go, and while Ronaldo is undoubtedly talented I am concerned that he will bring his Portuguese antics with him. Time will tell who's right.

I never denied that he was fouled, but he definitely made a meal of it. He deserved a pen yes, but I think we've only seen the start of more to come. You agree? Obviously you don't want to see a foul go unnoticed, but many Premiership strikers would have just buried that. My gut feeling is that we'll be seeing a lot more of this from Ronaldo.

I trust that you'll be supporting Uriah Rennie this weekend, come what may?

Last edited by evil_bastard on Aug-19-2003 at 15:55

It's entirely subjective, and I've seen this argument used to justify some appalling offsides recently. You might remember Real Madrid/Juventus, the first leg, when FOUR players were offside and the same justification was used to allow the goal. The problem is where do you draw the line? People draw it where they want and that causes injustice. Suppose the flick from RVN was intentional? Whether it benefitted Man U or not depends on the positioning of players and their percieved motives, not how good or bad the assist was. RVN played on Scholes who was in an offside position and capitalised from it.

He scored, so to say Man U didn't benefit means you're absolutely certain they would have scored otherwise without being offside and without RVN's touch, and I'm not convinced of that.

Both RVN's positioning and Scholes' positioning must be called into question, also the question of where the ball would have gone otherwise, how each players might have reacted, including the goalkeeper. Many questions come into play, all of which you are forced to ignore in allowing the goal. It's completely subjective, and I disagree with the verdict of the ref/linesman.

Uriah Rennie openly said he doesn't like Shearer, therefore it's ridiculous that he should be in charge of our match, ever again. We have lost in all 8 of the games that he has officiated. He sent Shearer off against Villa and even their players were completely bemused. Yes he sent off Keane (and Neville), in fact he was the harshest ref in the league and made masses of mistakes which was why he was relegated to the Nationwide. Jeff Winter (the fourth official on Saturday) also has a poor record with Newcastle, not surprising given he comes from Middlesbrough. Don't be surprised if things get very dirty next week...

As for Ronaldo, time will tell. He is young and lightweight so I think Fergie will use him as a super-sub for a few games to settle him down, but like many small players from countries like Portugal it wouldn't surprise anyone if he becomes the next Ginola or Klinsmann. He can't muscle defenders off the ball or grapple his way through so if he comes against defenders he doesn't like he'll play for a foul. I can see that becoming one of the features of his game, and I don't appreciate that kind of sly football. I hope I'm wrong about him, but as I say time will tell. Nonetheless he is entertaining to watch and I appreciate entertaining football. If Kleberson (Newcastle were supposedly after him for a long time as well) can achieve then Man U should have a very dynamic team this year, I just hope there aren't negative side-effects like diving/hacking etc.

Last edited by evil_bastard on Aug-19-2003 at 17:41

yeah, i gotta say some of the ref decisions are bad...

We always get poll vs spurs, and he blatantly screwed us 2 seasons ago awarding a freekick which spurs scored from in the 88th minute to win 3-2

In div1, a barry knight fucked up a game vs ipswich, gave them 3 penalties, sent 2 of us off, and then they appoint mike riley, his best friend & mentor to officiate games like vs leicester which he sent 2 of us off in the first 25mins for nothing tackles, which really sucks,

also bad, rob styles, his decisions are poor, and Mike Dean is harsh as fuck

The worst ref for Newcastle last season was without a doubt Neale Barry. I sincerely hope we never see this guy ever again because he's bad news.

God damn Neale Barry! He is such a little weasel.

Ronaldo comes on for half n hr and already supporters are jumping the gun. Sure he played exceptionally well when he came on against Bolton, but I'd like to see him play against Newcastle this weekend. To reassure everyone of what he is capable of

CARN THE PIES !

I don't think Newcastle's defence is much to measure anything by, they're good on their day but we've been done over by some pretty poor sides.

The problem with Newcastle is we're too soft when blatant injustice is thrown our way. Man Utd and Arsenal had problems with David Ellery and Graham Poll respectively for years, and both clubs made it clear they weren't welcome. Newcastle were treated like dirt last season by the likes of Neale Barry and Andy D'Urso. The treatment we got at Goodison, the Riverside and even the San Siro was despicable and not once did the club complain to anyone. Now we've got Uriah Rennie and Jeff Winter in charge of our massive game on Saturday and the club hasn't done anything about it. In 8 games with Rennie in charge we have lost 7 and drawn the other, and they were virtually all sides like Leicester, Bolton, Birmingham etc. The club should be trying to get a different ref on the field this Saturday, if we were half as ruthless as Arsenal or Man U we might actually see some decisions given our way. Referees like Barry and D'Urso know Bobby won't go complaining to the FA, but he had plenty of right to last year.