try checking out eddie halliwell or kentaro. Eddie uses turntablism skills in his hard dance and trance sets, and Kentaro was last years World DMC champion (you know hes got to be good), yet he spins house and can do a mad job in his sets if you're able to catch him live.
There's fewer in dance genres outside of hip-hop, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Ok... I scratch a fair bit (but I play progressive/breaks, so it's a bit more appropriate!) .. 1st thing you need to know is that a scratch record is not going to make you sound good... It's actually harder to scratch a vocal sample than it is to scratch something like a 'clap' sound from a regular track... Practice scratching on one of your old records you don't play anymore.. Find a sample which is clean (doesn't have too much going on and is crisp) .. Learn to scratch with that and then, once you have mastered scatching that, pick up some scratch records... I'd recommend DJ Rectangle - Ultimate Battle Weapon (volumes 1-5 they're all good...)

Remember, you are going to sound crap for a while.. Just like when you start learning to beatmatch....

Have fun!

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Originally posted by Tiger777 If you wanna scratch, you're in the wrong forum. Scratching with trance? Hmm, you can try, but I don't think you'll achieve succes...

Ever heard of Eddie Halliwell? He makes scratching in trance quality, pvd also does it every now and again but very subtle.

I never sayd scratching is impossible in trance, again, there are just few places where scratching sounds good(read: I sometimes does sound good, but not in many places).
A dj (i admit, a local one) screwed up a whole set with scratching all over the place.
djeez people, if it sounds good, it sounds good, but admit it, if scratching doesnt sound good, you shouldn't do it. You got these dj's that just scratch to scratch, after a while, you're sick of the scratching.
So, let me give my opninion on scratching + trance music again:
There are very few places where scratching in trance is appropriate, you'll find lots more places where a scratch sounds good in hiphop.
does ANYone in here deny that?

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Originally posted by Push2005 Ik ben net terug begonnen met cassettes op te kopen... Die pitchcontrol is echt ongelofelijk !

nope...it's all about the end sound.

but I think the problem is DJ's try to convert hiphop scratches to trance scratches, and it doesn't work (try scratching 16th notes on a 140 bpm record...hip hop is slow.....)

So what it takes is a re-consideration of how to use the turntables to mess up your sound in a creative and wellsounding way. In my opinion trance is not really appropriate for that, but Techno is, and I think techno can be even more of a creative DJ tool than a hip hop record with some dude rapping over it.

In trance there is too much happening all at once, and the beats aren't repetitive/steady enough. It's not really the genre maybe, it could work if vinyl was cut meant specifically for turntablism. Like barebone stripped mixes, giving you time and room to lay weird stuff on top of it.

I think tablism is a technique that could work out very cool for the DJ-scene...potentially

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Originally posted by dj_moonshine how do you scratch with trance? isnt scratching meant for hip hop?

carl cox scratches to techno here and there . . . its fackin great.

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Originally posted by Pjotr G nope...it's all about the end sound. but I think the problem is DJ's try to convert hiphop scratches to trance scratches, and it doesn't work (try scratching 16th notes on a 140 bpm record...hip hop is slow.....) So what it takes is a re-consideration of how to use the turntables to mess up your sound in a creative and wellsounding way. In my opinion trance is not really appropriate for that, but Techno is, and I think techno can be even more of a creative DJ tool than a hip hop record with some dude rapping over it. In trance there is too much happening all at once, and the beats aren't repetitive/steady enough. It's not really the genre maybe, it could work if vinyl was cut meant specifically for turntablism. Like barebone stripped mixes, giving you time and room to lay weird stuff on top of it. I think tablism is a technique that could work out very cool for the DJ-scene...potentially

I pretty much agree with that.

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quote:

Originally posted by Push2005 Ik ben net terug begonnen met cassettes op te kopen... Die pitchcontrol is echt ongelofelijk !

Ok, let's look at this in a bit more detail.

First up, you can scratch with trance, but the point is that you have to be real careful with the types of tunes you do this with.
A lot of the top DJs will do it if they are brave enough, the ones that are good at it you will probably not notice that they are doing it. The times it will be blatantly be obvious is when the DJ is pants.

A couple of points on scratching.

1. Remember less is more, you are enhancing the music, not using the music as a background to your Turn table skills. A Hip Hop DJ thinks more like a drummer as the bassis for what he is doing, but a trance DJ has to be aware of other things too.

2. Pick the right bits in the music, a full on 4/4 beat is harder to find a groove in but if you are good you can actually create one. Some trance tunes actually have a more electro sounding break in the middle (Matt Darey - Electro Buzz for example) where you get a change in tempo. This is ideal as they usually match the same rythms as traditional Funk and Hip Hop. These segments allow you a little more freedom.

3. Don't scratch in the middle of a melodic build up unless you happen to be an expert beat juggler (Beat Juggling = The creation of a rythm track using 1 or more individual drum sounds on 1 or more records... very hard to do well).

4. Make sure the sounds you use are relevant to the music. Although the record (Please forgive my poor french spelling) 'Un Salle Histoire' by B-Side may have given us the most well known samples ever i.e. "Aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrgh... this stuff is really Freeeesh", it may not suite trance music.

5. Because Trance music tends to have a lot going on, the scratches that sound effective are usually the simpler ones. Straight forward cuts and echo effects sounds really nice if done right. You might want to avoid techniques like the 4 finger crab, chirps and such like as they can sound messy if not done right, not to mention that you would have to be world class fast to do this at 140ish bpm.

6. Avoid scratching over a vocal, it doesn't sound good in most cases.

7. As a trance DJ, try and avoid using sounds that aren't in key as this could still make it sounds rough even if your technique was spot on.

Hard House, Techno and Drum and Bass DJs have been doing it for years so don't be put off by people who say no. If you feel it's right, go for it. The only thing it could ever do is make you a better DJ, whether you decide to do it in your sets or not is a different matter. Along the way you may even discover some other things.

Get a DMC World Championship tape and see how they do it. One of them (and I forget which one 'Turn Tablist Tips and Trix' I think) has Black Sun doing this really wild tune with a high pitched squeek over the top of a pitched to the max 'Robert Miles' - Children and it just sounds insane. Perhaps not dance floor material but has to be seen.

Don't try to do too much too quickly. Be patient and have fun with it.

Good luck
Nem

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i heard this trance track, its called " that zipper track-- DJ Dan pres. needle damage". it has some scratching in it, i dont know if its real time scratching or if it was used with a sampler.

i can't dtand djs who scratch evry two seconds in there set. it wastes good choons. if you want to scratch enter the dmc championships but don't do it in a club. it fuckin horrible.

Scratching can sound mint to techno! Just listen to one of carl cox's sets! I've heard it a couple of times in a trance set, didn't like that much thow

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Mhuhahahahahaha !!!!

One thing I did forget to mention in my previous post is that you may want to put an echo effect with it if you are scratching over trance as it will sound too dry otherwise. Trance gives the feeling of a lot of big spaces, your scratching shouldn't be any different.


On a personal note:
I don't scratch in my own sets even though I have a turntablist background since '86. My own thoughts are that you have to be so damn good to get away with it, and if you are not it will not sound good.
There are plenty of effects and tricks you can to with just the EQs without resorting to scratching (Most come from turntablism anyway).

I still think you should try it as you will learn from it, but be aware of your own sound.


Hey Moonshine,

I know the track you mean, it's actually a sample of a sound effect that has been made to sound like a scratch.
Cool track but I do whish DJ Dan had not included the Human Beat Box Sample.

Cheers
Nem

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