quote:

Originally posted by Izzy ATLANTA (Reuters) - A report published by the Centers for Disease Control on Thursday found no conclusive evidence that gun control laws help to prevent violent crime, suicides and accidental injuries in the United States.

What laws for prevention?! :S

bowling for columbine is a great movie, it has some good points but i can't agree with michel in his conclusions.
of course weopond laws is the mayor problem. i don't know about the rest of the world but here in sweden it is really hard to even get a gun (or rifle for hunting)! and if you want heavier things you have to a military! this has to make a big inpact of the murder rate.
I agree with you Yoepus, it is very much about cultural problems. US citizens tend to use violence to solve all their problems (just look at their foreigens policys). But this is just to basic to have an easy solution for.
The third problem really is the political system of US, you don't give a fuck about thoose sick guys like those who did the columbine shooting.

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Originally posted by St_Andrew What laws for prevention?! :S bowling for columbine is a great movie, it has some good points but i can't agree with michel in his conclusions. of course weopond laws is the mayor problem. i don't know about the rest of the world but here in sweden it is really hard to even get a gun (or rifle for hunting)! and if you want heavier things you have to a military! this has to make a big inpact of the murder rate. I agree with you Yoepus, it is very much about cultural problems. US citizens tend to use violence to solve all their problems (just look at their foreigens policys). But this is just to basic to have an easy solution for. The third problem really is the political system of US, you don't give a fuck about thoose sick guys like those who did the columbine shooting.

I agree that we live use violence to solve our problems as Americans, but as Michael Moore said as an example, Germany had a somewhat violent society during the Nazi era, and nowadays they aren't killing each other as much as Americans are.

As for your third "problem", I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say.

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Originally posted by Galapidate I agree that we live use violence to solve our problems as Americans, but as Michael Moore said as an example, Germany had a somewhat violent society during the Nazi era, and nowadays they aren't killing each other as much as Americans are.

No but maybe they learned a lesson. I don't really know but anyway Germans nowadays are pretty peaceful. There is also a big different between 1940's German and todays US. They where desperate and their economy where terrible and the biggest problem was Hitler, not the Germans. Maybe you can blame US politicians for the gun murders in US but not as much as you can blame Hitler for the killing of jews.

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As for your third "problem", I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say.

I was trying to say that in most European countries the government takes care of people who can't make it by their own. Of course this can't be 100% successful but i think it will prevent some of it.

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Originally posted by St_Andrew No but maybe they learned a lesson. I don't really know but anyway Germans nowadays are pretty peaceful. There is also a big different between 1940's German and todays US. They where desperate and their economy where terrible and the biggest problem was Hitler, not the Germans. Maybe you can blame US politicians for the gun murders in US but not as much as you can blame Hitler for the killing of jews. I was trying to say that in most European countries the government takes care of people who can't make it by their own. Of course this can't be 100% successful but i think it will prevent some of it.

In the first point, America has had a bloody past. Our earlier generations practically wiped out an entire race (Native Americans), enslaved Africans, etc.

Second, or rather third since it was your third point hehe, I definitely agree with that. The U.S. government, especially during these times, does very little to help the unemployed, homeless and poor. There have been numerous studies that show how poverty leads to crime, and I'm expecting that crime will continue going up until the economy gets better.

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Originally posted by Galapidate In the first point, America has had a bloody past. Our earlier generations practically wiped out an entire race (Native Americans), enslaved Africans, etc.

That is true but it can have something to do with that "earlier generations" thing =) It can also have something to do with that you actually won over them. And it can defiantly have something to do with you fighting against the Indians pretty much without any leader forcing you to fight them. Germans where under the tyranny of Hitler and afterwords thought the violence where just terrible meanwhile the Americans fought for their "freedom" and therefore didn't think of violence in the same negative way.

Or maybe it's just everything of this plus another 2000 reasons =)

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Originally posted by St_Andrew That is true but it can have something to do with that "earlier generations" thing =) It can also have something to do with that you actually won over them. And it can defiantly have something to do with you fighting against the Indians pretty much without any leader forcing you to fight them. Germans where under the tyranny of Hitler and afterwords thought the violence where just terrible meanwhile the Americans fought for their "freedom" and therefore didn't think of violence in the same negative way. Or maybe it's just everything of this plus another 2000 reasons =)

What does fighting for freedom have to do with stealing Native American land and killing the Native Americans in attempt to make the entire race become extinct? Looks a lot like some of the things Hitler did, but in a shorter period of time...

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Originally posted by Galapidate What does fighting for freedom have to do with stealing Native American land and killing the Native Americans in attempt to make the entire race become extinct? Looks a lot like some of the things Hitler did, but in a shorter period of time...

for them (US) the violence brought much more good things and i think that's a big difference. Germans really learned a lesson while Americans learned the wrong lesson (violence benefit).

I must agree with those who said that the culture is the problem for such a hightened gun crime rate. Or to be more specific, the culture which worships one's individuality and individual success. On the other hand, it is also a culture which doesn't allow a person to stumble or fail. It's a sort of social darwinism at work, a system where if a person fails, no institution is going to help. For example, if a person becomes unemployed, and before finding another job gets seriously ill, he/she is doomed to oblivion (I'm feeling poetic today). Anyway, since it is obvious that in such a culture a person's well being is solely dependant on that one person only, that encourages a sort of "every man for himself" mentality. That mentality in turn encourages people to take justice in their own hands. And once that step is made, the rate of violent gun crimes is certain to go up.

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1+1=10

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Originally posted by St_Andrew for them (US) the violence brought much more good things and i think that's a big difference. Germans really learned a lesson while Americans learned the wrong lesson (violence benefit).

That is true, but back then there was no force to stop the U.S., since Natives lacked technology but also no other countries seemed to care.

i think the reason is because americans thinks its not a big deal shooting people then in other countries and it just grew from there. I mean it became so common to solve problems by shooting the enemy that americans lost all morals. so reason why people think this way? maybe the peers.

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"Saying you understand trance by listening to commercial crap is like saying you understand hip hop by listening to 'Who let the dogs out'" - unknown

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Originally posted by gOOD-tRiP i think the reason is because americans thinks its not a big deal shooting people then in other countries and it just grew from there. I mean it became so common to solve problems by shooting the enemy that americans lost all morals. so reason why people think this way? maybe the peers.

LOL did you watch Bowling for Columbine? "Forget the police, I take the middle man out of the equation and do it myself!"

today, Germany is one of the most pacifistic countries in the world, and it's sad that a country has to lose a war to realise that war is stupid, i only wish the obsequious wanker that represents me could understand that violence isn't the key.

Personally i wouldn't classify bowling for columbine as a documentary, it's way too biased. I'm not saying it's bad i love moores insight, and am a regular viewer of the awful truth. I don't think Moore will be able to make another movie like bowling for columbine, one of his main tactics was to secure interviews with people that thought he was a fan or underestimated him, now that he is well known, who in their right mind would want to be interviewed by him now?

australian statistics:
- population: 19,959,782
- one birth every 2 minutes and 8 s
- one death every 3 minutes and 56 s
- a net gain of one international migrant every 4 minutes and 40 seconds

ethnic ancestry stats:
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/[email protected]?OpenDocument
couldn't find anything more up to date, you have to order it from the ABS.
6.7 million Australian
6.4 million English
1.9 million Irish
500,000 - 999,999 Italian, German, Chinese, Scottish
etcetera

i wouldn't classify ethnicity as a reason for violence

the gun buyback scheme: where people hand in their guns of their own will to be destroyed and are reimbursed with a fraction of the guns price

quote:

The Federal government hopes to net more than 65,000 guns under the $118 million scheme agreed by governments after two students were shot dead last year when a licensed shooter opened fire on a classroom at Melbourne's Monash University. It's the nation's second gun crackdown. The Federal Government spent about $315 million buying back more than 640,000 guns after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996.