quote:

Originally posted by occrider Well I would if I had a subscription to gallup . $95 for a yearly subscription. I love their polls but I dunno if I love them that much. Usually I try to check their new (free) polls every day before they become archived.

Spend the money

That is only one less beer a month at DC prices

Onto the picture, I do not want to sound harsh but seing as that picture is without context there is no telling what actually happened. It could have been an Iraqi who shot her, it could have been an accidental firing of a weapon she was playing with, it could have been anything. I will not be so naive as to think that there have been zero cases of innocent women and children dying from wounds recieved by direct contact with American munitions (an M-16 bullet wound would count). What I will say is this, the US military puts a lot of effort into maing sure that their force is used in the most effiecient manner with regards to targeting. They want to hit their target with as little damage as is humanly possible to objects/people that are not the target. I am saddend by the picture as much as anyone else. But ************ of the merits of going into the military action were, using one picture to try and say that all American service personnel are baby-killers is wrong.

I do not believe that we were justified in launching a pre-emptive stirke against Iraq. I felt there was not enough evidence to lead me to believe that Saddam was even a remote threat to American security. But that being said, I am not going to say "Bring the all home now" because doing so would be a greater disaster than the current one.

MrS

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quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel Spend the money That is only one less beer a month at DC prices Onto the picture, I do not want to sound harsh but seing as that picture is without context there is no telling what actually happened. It could have been an Iraqi who shot her, it could have been an accidental firing of a weapon she was playing with, it could have been anything.

I know.

I wasn't trying to manipulate anyone with that picture. It just was very moving. I thought of all those questions while staring at that little girl's lifeless body. A young life taken by greed.

quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel But ************ of the merits of going into the military action were, using one picture to try and say that all American service personnel are baby-killers is wrong.

The actions of those who serve in Iraq will remain on their minds, and in their hearts for a long time afterwards; perhaps their whole lives. They are in a place that is perhaps the closest thing to the concept of hell that can be found on Earth. I think that's enough without people calling them "baby killers." Don't you think?

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Last edited by DaveSZ on Sep-24-2003 at 23:31

quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel What I will say is this, the US military puts a lot of effort into maing sure that their force is used in the most effiecient manner with regards to targeting. They want to hit their target with as little damage as is humanly possible to objects/people that are not the target.

Actually, my father was in Iran a month ago or so and witnessed first hand the demages by misguided US missles, in a Iranian city across from Basra...just a though

That was an interesting report Occrider, thanks. Malnutrition i'm sure had a tromendous effect on the death rate as well, all i wanted to point out was what the cocksucker was saying about the photos of the dying children....

quote:

Originally posted by che Actually, my father was in Iran a month ago or so and witnessed first hand the demages by misguided US missles, in a Iranian city across from Basra...just a though That was an interesting report Occrider, thanks. Malnutrition i'm sure had a tromendous effect on the death rate as well, all i wanted to point out was what the cocksucker was saying about the photos of the dying children....

I never said they always succeeded in avoiding damage to things not specifically targeted. There are always going to be mistakes made, innocent people killed, and unwanted damage during a military conflict. It is the nature of the game, sad to say.

As to the authenticity of the damage you speak of, I can ask you this: Was your father there when the "errant missle" hit? Did he pull pieces from the debris that said "Raytheon", "Lockheed-Martin", "Boeing", "General Dynamics", or "Hughes Missile Systems" on it?

My point is not that no American ordinance fell in Iran, I am a realist and would be willing to wager that in all likelyhood a small number did. But just because your father saw some damage and was told it was "an American missile" does not make it proof. It could very well be propaganda. I also remember seeing during the war reports that a US missile had mistakenly gone into Iran and less than a day later the Iranian state news agency reported it was not an American missile but an Iraqi one.

I know the damage that can be caused by military hardware and that there is no "perfect system". You must remember though, the whole point of weapons is to damage/destroy property or kill people. It is a messy business which is why I feel we should do as much as possible to avoid the use of these weapons. The only way to guarantee a weapon will not kill an innocent bystander is to not shoot it at all.

MrS

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Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with our world

quote:

Originally posted by moncster Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with our world

Explain (the picture).

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Very fucked up shit, and very sad

Yes so very, very sad

I wish we could figure out some way to live in peace.

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quote:

Originally posted by davedresden oh my fucking god i die, dave

Well i support the troops.. but I have a love one over there and I get to hear a lot of what the majority of american's don't.. I don't blame many people for their opinions..

I know that innocent have died.. but i also know a huge piece of my heart is over for the specific duty of helping the Iraq's at the moment and yet still has to face things like having a gun put to his head cuz he's american by someone he's there to help!

Even many of the children there are raised to hate american's with a passion.. you have kids not much older than my daughter.. age 6.. who know how to use guns and given the chance would blow your head off!!

How can people create such hate in children soooo innocent!

tears....

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let's forget that Saddam had done this to hundreds of people, kids, women included, and would've continued to do this if america had not stepped in. ya, let's just forget rite? 1 side of the story is always good enough

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wow...that's really shocking.

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While the picture is very moving, and terribly sad, you have to remember this happens to children every day in different parts of the world. War is unfortunately an aspect of life and atrocities such as this cannot be stopped, as they are meant to happen at one point or another.

I never agreed with the war, but as someone mentioned, I'm sure similar disgusting events were condoned by Saddam and his ignorant sons against his own people, which to me is worse than an innocent who dies because of war.