I'd take a look at the Dell 8300, they use the Intel P4 CPU with multi-threading capability. The Intel chips a few years ago were faster at floating point math than AMD (not sure of the current comparisons), and that could be important for crunching huge music waveforms. They have 800 MHz FSB. The Dells are not too expensive, and they sell in big numbers so they have worked out most of the bugs that pop up with a custom-made or low-volume system.

I've got a Dell 8250 (no longer available), 2.5P4, 512K rambus ram, it is similar to the 8300. I've editted a few music videos with it (non-pro), and even 1/2 hour videos, and it easily handles these big jobs. Also I've been doing fairly long Traktor recorded mixes and that runs fine. I have lots of gigabyte+ video and now audio files on my computer and they pose no problem, except for filling the HD. The HD on the 8300 is probably a good unit too, with 8 MB cache - that's what I received (120 GB WD), and I just added a 160GB Maxtor 2nd drive from Costco. 8300s are available with SATA HDs.

What is really nice about my Dell is that it virtually never crashes, which really improves my productivity. I too was going to switch to Mac but I don't think it's necessary anymore for music/video work.

You can get the 8300 with an ATI 9700/9800 or other graphics card that supports 2 VGA monitors which is an inexpensive way to double your XP desktop space. I have dual 19" monitors, usually I just use one, but turn on the other for video editting or when I want to have a lot of windows open. The monitors don't have to run at the same resolution.

The 8300 I believe ships with half the ram slots full so you can upgrade easily later. Also has that extra HD bay, plus depending on your system one empty 5.25" and one 3.5" drive bay.

I have the Soundblaster Audigy 2 which is 24/96 and has a useable firewire IEEE-1394 port - it works fine for me, definitely CD quality sound and works fine for digitizing vinyl, although you might want something even better - in that case you could just order a cheapy like the SB Live and replace it yourself with a pro audio card. I had the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz card on a similar Dell and it was good too, the Audigy is more feature-loaded but similar quality.

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Originally posted by tvmann I'd take a look at the Dell 8300, they use the Intel P4 CPU with multi-threading capability. The Intel chips a few years ago were faster at floating point math than AMD (not sure of the current comparisons), and that could be important for crunching huge music waveforms.

Now, I am not an expert here, but I was led to believe that audio files are stored as integer values. I mean, it is a 16/24 bit sample, i.e. a code, which represents the value of the input signal at that certain point in time. Since there is a 1-to-1 mapping between a voltage signal and a code, there doesn't seem to be much floating -or fixed- point math going on when you compute stuff with sounds.
Where is my thinking mistake, since I am always willing to learn.

Anyhow, currently it largely depends on what floating point operations you want to perform whether the AMD is faster than the intel. If you are looking at standard x87, your chances are pretty good that the AMD is faster, for SSE2 Intel > AMD, even the new 64 bit ones.

For integer math, I am not sure, look at some SiSoft Sandra benches, they will tell you.

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originally posted by drizzt81 Now, I am not an expert here, but I was led to believe that audio files are stored as integer values. I mean, it is a 16/24 bit sample, i.e. a code, which represents the value of the input signal at that certain point in time. Since there is a 1-to-1 mapping between a voltage signal and a code, there doesn't seem to be much floating -or fixed- point math going on when you compute stuff with sounds. Where is my thinking mistake, since I am always willing to learn.

yes, i would like to know this also. for audio apps, do i need mainly floating point math, or integer?

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originally posted by El~ZaPo I would recommend getting a larger hard drive than 40GB. 120GB 7200RPM with 8MB cache (good for large files) are relatively cheap, you can get them for under $150 CAN. If the description for the hard drive doesn't mention cache, assume that its 2MB. If you're willing to spend more, look at the 10K RPM drives like drizzt81 suggested.

yeah, as i said, the 40Gb drive is to be used only for the OS and program files basically. I also have another 7200RPM drive i will use for storing data files, mp3s, documents, pictures etc. I plan on also purchasing a 10k rpm 100GB drive for the hardcore editing stuff as well.

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originally posted by El~ZaPo You're in BC so in case you haven't looked it up, check out www.NCIX.com they have great prices and service is good too. Maybe thats the site you're buying from, I can't tell from the picture.

yeah, it was from ncix, it's very close to me, that's why i chose them. good advice on the video cards, thanks.

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originally posted by El~ZaPo About the CD/DVD stuff: If you don't need to do 'on the fly' burning then you won't need the DVD-ROM. However, if you'll be burning rented DVDs its good to be able to do that without copying to HDD first. Otherwise, scrap the DVD-ROM and use the $50 somewhere else or just save it.

that's what i want it for, god bless canada.

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originally posted by Orbax +R recording is better for burning DVD movies and console games , and the media is cheaper.

thanks for the info mate.

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originally posted by MK-S Make sure you get the Audiophile 2496

yep pretty much decided on that one.

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originally posted by drizzt81 ok, I have been a bit out of the loop when it comes to mobo chipsets, but in term of motherboard makers look at either ASUS or ABIT. Either one is a great choice. If you are going 'cheap' look at Elitegroup. I am not sure that I would go with a VIA chipset. I have had some _BAD_ experiences with them, but I haven't heard much about the KT600. Last mobo I got was an nForce2 based one. I liked it a lot, since it WORKED out of the box

hmm... i assume VIA chipset = SOLTEK? i have heard ASUS or ABIT are good too.. hm... i know nothing about motherboards at all, i think i will have to do a bit more research

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originally posted by drizzt81 OEM version should provide a CD, how else will you be able to install it?

it would come preinstalled on the computer with no CD. that's how my hewlett crappard i have now is. it has "restore" CDs that enable you to put it back to the way it was though. meaning it installs a bunch of advertisements, useless programs, spyware, and other bullshit. Also, i can't use the restore CD unless the computer system is EXACTLY the way it was when i bought it, meaning if i put in a CD burner, then windows dies (as it always does) and i need to reformat, then i need to take out the burner, put back the CD rom, and do it. and finally and most annoyingly, if i need something off the windows CD, like a driver or font or something that didn't get installed, well, that's too damn bad cuz i don't have it. it's worth it to me to pay more for the retail if that's the only way i can get the CD. If not that, then what is the difference?

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originally posted by drizzt81 if you are looking at saving some money now, get the LOWEST clocked Barton core AXP [333MHz]. Then o/c that to 400, which is almost a certainty with a good mobo and you will have a wikked fast system.

yeah, i don't really want to o/c, it voids warranties, can cause system to be unstable etc. but i am pretty much decided on a 300Mhz FSB, just because the 400 is SO much more expensive. i might overclock it eventually though.

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originally posted by drizzt81 nowadays there are _VERY_ few processors that do not require active cooling (i.e. a fan). Two that I can come up with are the VIA C3 -used on the EDEN plattform- and the Transmeta crusoe. Any Intel/ AMD x86 chip that you can buy today _WILL_ need to be cooled with a fan+heatsink. Unless you run it at like 100MHz or something.

yeah, well, i am getting AMD for sure. a fan wasn't included in their preconfigured system, so i left it out. and i am not sure what kind of fan i need, because certain ones fit on certain processors, am i correct?

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originally posted by drizzt81 Plextor is offering the 705a (i think), which is a burner that burns all formats. See www.cdrinfo.com for more info about that. I think it's worth the $235 or so it costs.

yeah, the one i chose does all formats too, and it's only $202 CAD

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originally posted by drizzt81 Any ATI card from the 9x00 series should be perfectly fine, if you don't plan on ultra high end gaming. Don't buy nvidia Geforce FX, since it is WAY too expensive for the performance you get. Right now, ATI is the best way to go for price/ performance in the lower end of the segment.

hmm.. alright, good to know.

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originally posted by liquidmist2001 of couse, you'll need a power supply and a case. get at least a 400W powersupply otherwise you won't have full processing power.

is that really true? do i NEED 400W power supply? i will have to change cases too then i think, as it's all in one.

Thanks for the help everyone, i will go check out some more websites, maybe change the Case, Power Supply to be 400W, and lower the Video Card down a notch.

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Originally posted by JohnSmith it would come preinstalled on the computer with no CD. that's how my hewlett crappard i have now is. it has "restore" CDs that enable you to put it back to the way it was though. meaning it installs a bunch of advertisements, useless programs, spyware, and other bullshit. Also, i can't use the restore CD unless the computer system is EXACTLY the way it was when i bought it, meaning if i put in a CD burner, then windows dies (as it always does) and i need to reformat, then i need to take out the burner, put back the CD rom, and do it. and finally and most annoyingly, if i need something off the windows CD, like a driver or font or something that didn't get installed, well, that's too damn bad cuz i don't have it. it's worth it to me to pay more for the retail if that's the only way i can get the CD. If not that, then what is the difference?

actually, that's not entirely true. it might be for the sucky HPs, but sony doesn't have that problem, the original HDD with my sony fried, and i bought and installed a new one, and it let me restore everything fine & dandy. i also had to replace the dvd rom drive as i had worn it out pretty much with excess DVD ripping, and i was still able to restore my system.

If you're actually buying an OEM copy of WinXP seperately, then you would get a cd with it. I use to build computers part time, and I would recommend getting the OEM copies to my customers, cuz it came with a CD, or else you can download the XP home edition, and use the OEM Key that they send you.

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Originally posted by JohnSmith is that really true? do i NEED 400W power supply? i will have to change cases too then i think, as it's all in one.

yeah bro, trust me, with all the processing and the load that you're gonna be putting on MBD, you definetly want a 400W power supply, otherwise your computer would die fast due to the lack of power. if you don't wanna shell out for a 400W (even though it's not terribly expensive) try to get a really good 300W or 350W power supply.

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Originally posted by JohnSmith yeah, well, i am getting AMD for sure. a fan wasn't included in their preconfigured system, so i left it out. and i am not sure what kind of fan i need, because certain ones fit on certain processors, am i correct?

also, most new processors come with their own fan. i have yet to see a p4 or the new amd chips to come with out a fan. you can always upgrade, and that's not so hard to do, get a better heatsink & fan. also depending on your case, you might want to get a compartment fan, to keep everything else nice and cool.

Retail cpu's come with a standard heatsink/fan combo that will sufficiently cool it, but wont allow for much overclocking, and a 3 year warranty.

OEM cpu's are a little cheaper and have no fan or warranty.

If you go for an OEM version, get yourself a Coolermaster Aero 7 Lite, great value for money cooler

If you are going for AMD, may I advies one of the following 2 boards:

Abit NF7-S v2.0 nForce2

Asus A7N8X Deluxe nForce2

They will serve you well

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Originally posted by JohnSmith hmm... i assume VIA chipset = SOLTEK? i have heard ASUS or ABIT are good too.. hm... i know nothing about motherboards at all, i think i will have to do a bit more research

I do not know much about Soltek motherboard, but I am sure that they offer more than just one chipset. Abit and Asus do offer VIA solutions too

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yeah, i don't really want to o/c, it voids warranties, can cause system to be unstable etc. but i am pretty much decided on a 300Mhz FSB, just because the 400 is SO much more expensive. i might overclock it eventually though.

unless you overvoltage it will not void any warranty.

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yeah, well, i am getting AMD for sure. a fan wasn't included in their preconfigured system, so i left it out. and i am not sure what kind of fan i need, because certain ones fit on certain processors, am i correct?

it's more the heatsink than the fan that needs to fit.

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is that really true? do i NEED 400W power supply? i will have to change cases too then i think, as it's all in one.

get a GOOD 350W one and you will be happy, I can recommend Enermax

for some information:
www.hardocp.com
www.anandtech.com

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alright, i took some peoples advice, and changed a few things around. Since people were saying that a 400W power supply is essential, i looked for a case with that included, and wasn't able to find one that was very good, and not too extravagant. I settled on an NCI case with a 350W power supply is that a little better? I also looked at some other options:

CASE AND POWER SUPPLY:

Case and 350W power supply for $56.32
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=8680
(price is right!)

Better Case and 400W Antec Power Supply for $144.07
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=8621
(people on the forum say the power supply is good)

Turbo Gamer Case with 420W power supply $186.45
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=8034
(don't know how good the power supply would be, but at 420 watts it should be enough, even if it's only an average brand of PS right?)

JUST CASE:

Basic Case $54.32
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=9501

Basic Case $83.00
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=9033

Awesome Case with window and temperature gauge $105.79
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=10156
Pictures: http://www.ncix.com/products/moreimages.cfm?sku=10156

I'm leaning towards the last case, even though i said i didn't need a window and temp gauge and all that, it's only $100, which is a pretty good deal from what i can tell. looks pretty cool too.

I decided to stick with the same motherboard, did a little research on it.

it has 3 RAM slots of 184pin DDR DIMM, and supports up to 3Gb. So i think i am OK with going with 2 512Mb chips to start. If i want i can throw in a 1Gb chip later. Or even a 2Gb and max it out (i think they make 2Gb ram chips right?)

It also says DDR 400 Module supported conditionally I'm not sure what that means, but i upped the ram to 400Mhz as that will be a lot faster i think. the system is put together and tested for me, so i am sure they won't send it to me if the ram doesn't work.

There was a lot of other stuff in there i didn't understand though, if someone who knows motherboards could take a look i would appreciate it. here's a review:
http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1334

I left the processor the same as well, it is a retail version, so i assume that means it must come with a heat sink and fan as krooton said. I'm sure they wouldn't give me one without that, especially an athlon.

People were saying that the video card i had wouldn't be that good, so i upgraded that to a ATI RADEON 9200 128Mb card. it cost me an extra $86 or so, which isn't too bad i guess, and the video card will last me a while now. Is there any cheaper card that would still give adequate performance? remember, i am not a gamer, i just will be watching DVDs and stuff on here, and maybe the occasional divX trance video.

I left the rest of the system pretty much the same, and i came out at $1397.42. Of course, that is excluding the soundcard, the LAN has built in sound so that will work for me for time being, and i will buy an M-audio Audiophile 24/96 as soon as i get around to it from another retailer that sells them. I think i will be a bit over budget, but that's OK, this system is gonna kick some serious ass over my little hewlett crappard.

So, have I done good? Is this system better than the other?


about the only decision i have now is, do i want to keep my cheap $50 case with 350W power supply, or splurge on the $175 case, and buy a seperate enermax 400W one.

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Originally posted by JohnSmith People were saying that the video card i had wouldn't be that good, so i upgraded that to a ATI RADEON 9200 128Mb card. it cost me an extra $86 or so, which isn't too bad i guess, and the video card will last me a while now. Is there any cheaper card that would still give adequate performance? remember, i am not a gamer, i just will be watching DVDs and stuff on here, and maybe the occasional divX trance video.

Radeon 9200 is roughly on par with the GeForce 5200. However, whatever you do, don't buy the retail BBA (built by ATI) version. Get the 'built by Sapphire' OEM version which is $100 cheaper:
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=9873

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Originally posted by JohnSmith Turbo Gamer Case with 420W power supply $186.45 http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=8034 (don't know how good the power supply would be, but at 420 watts it should be enough, even if it's only an average brand of PS right?)

well the problem is that PSU's are often mislabeled. A shitty 420W psu might just put out 270-300W. So quite often you are better off with a NICE 350W unit than a no-name junk 400W one. It all depends, nobody can tell without testing the supply. Take a look at www.tomshardware.com a WHILE (like two years or so) ago they did some power supply testing. Also, look around on the web, there are PLENTY of web-sites that have PSU reviews and some might even tell you how much power the supply was able to deliver.

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I decided to stick with the same motherboard, did a little research on it. it has 3 RAM slots of 184pin DDR DIMM, and supports up to 3Gb. So i think i am OK with going with 2 512Mb chips to start. If i want i can throw in a 1Gb chip later. Or even a 2Gb and max it out (i think they make 2Gb ram chips right?)

Pricewatch reveals that there "are" 2GB DDR ram modules, they are 'just' $699+ but there is no guarantee that they will work. Go to the soltek website and look at the specs on your mobo. If it doesn't say that it can support 4GB+ of ram, you won't be able to use them.
As soon as you add the third stick of RAM, you will not be able to use the dual channel memory controller anymore -afaik. At least that is the way the nForce works.

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It also says DDR 400 Module supported conditionally I'm not sure what that means, but i upped the ram to 400Mhz as that will be a lot faster i think. the system is put together and tested for me, so i am sure they won't send it to me if the ram doesn't work.

If you are buying a 400MHz CPU it'd better work at 400MHz with 400MHz ram.. I am sure that you can add this clause to your contract though. Say, if it doesn't run the RAM at 400MHz, you don't want it.

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There was a lot of other stuff in there i didn't understand though, if someone who knows motherboards could take a look i would appreciate it. here's a review: http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1334

definetely won't work with 2GB ram modules

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People were saying that the video card i had wouldn't be that good, so i upgraded that to a ATI RADEON 9200 128Mb card. it cost me an extra $86 or so, which isn't too bad i guess, and the video card will last me a while now. Is there any cheaper card that would still give adequate performance? remember, i am not a gamer, i just will be watching DVDs and stuff on here, and maybe the occasional divX trance video.

no ATI's with only 64MB? $86 on top of the price seems like an AWEFUL lot to me.. i'd assume that the 9200 itself is <$100 at this point.

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Dell 8300 $1304 Cdn from www.dell.ca They have new deals every Saturday, and sometimes they will sweeten the deal on Tuesday or Wednesday.

http://configure.dell.com/dellstore...E#bottom_anchor

P4 2.6, 800 FSB
Windows XP Home (XP Pro +$150)
512 MB DDR SDRAM 400 MHz
120 GB Serial ATA HD 8 MB cache
space for additional HD
3.5" floppy
space for additional 3.5" device
multimedia keyboard
optical mouse
Wordperfect Pack (several other software options)
64 MB Nvidia Geforce 4 MX video card (I had this exact card and its fine for all but max-action games)
no monitor (many Dell options)
16X CD/DVD ROM
4X DVD+r/+RW (or can save $210 if u don't need to burn DVDs)
audio onboard (or SB Live +$50, SB Audigy 2 +$150)
no speakers
integrated network port
no modem
1 year warranty (other warranties available up to 5 years)

Frequently they have free shipping, not sure if still available this week, can be $129. In Canada delivery takes about 12 days after ordering.

This is from the small business section where you can order a system without monitor, same prices as for home users section.

Don't worry about pre-installed adware - they don't have any. However if you register the included MusicMatch and McAfee security trial software, those guys will email you to try to get you to sign up.

As regards memory, 512 is plenty for today. I can run lots of big programs with 512, I almost got another 512 but it's not yet necessary, in a year it will be cheaper. Extra memory is usually much cheaper from third party dealers.

Good luck whichever way you go.