quote:

Originally posted by NoMoreTears This does not prove anything except that you mailed a track to yourself.. think about it for a minute..

getting a copyright doenst prove anything either really. in canada, you are required to fill out a form describing the type of work, and the title. it specifically says on the form "please do not send copies of your work".

you could copyright any track, they wouldnt know if you made it or not. they dont even listen to it, or keep a copy on file. lets say I register a song called "Chrono - Hyperion". I use that as the title, here is the actual FORM. Then, a song is released by an established artist.. lets take "Pulser - Cloudwalking". The song was not created by me, but I claim that Pulser stole my song and changed the name. He copyrighted the track also, but at a later date. How would the copyrights have any kind of legal proof of who made the original song?

I just don't get it.

quote:

Originally posted by You aint Ninja What can you do in the U.S.?

if you really want to fully protect your intellectual property...then you need to get your alias (even if its your actual name) protected. i'm not that versed in music law yet, but from what i know you need to file for copyright protection with the united states copyright and patent office bla bla bla...i have a link to a really useful site for this kinda stuff...i'll try and find the link...i mean...you'd probably be alright without this, but if you ever get really serious then you'll need to take this step at sometime...

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Chrono getting a copyright doenst prove anything either really. in canada, you are required to fill out a form describing the type of work, and the title. it specifically says on the form "please do not send copies of your work". you could copyright any track, they wouldnt know if you made it or not. they dont even listen to it, or keep a copy on file. lets say I register a song called "Chrono - Hyperion". I use that as the title, here is the actual FORM. Then, a song is released by an established artist.. lets take "Pulser - Cloudwalking". The song was not created by me, but I claim that Pulser stole my song and changed the name. He copyrighted the track also, but at a later date. How would the copyrights have any kind of legal proof of who made the original song? I just don't get it.

well...i'm not a 100%, but i would assume that it would be something like this...

you file for a copyright at given date...

pulsar files for a copyright at a later date...

you believe that his song uses a substantial part of your tune (thats important...it would have to be something pretty major)

given that your copyright is filed before his...you retain the rights of the music...

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller well...i'm not a 100%, but i would assume that it would be something like this... you file for a copyright at given date... pulsar files for a copyright at a later date... you believe that his song uses a substantial part of your tune (thats important...it would have to be something pretty major) given that your copyright is filed before his...you retain the rights of the music...

yes, but how would I be able to proove that my copyrighted song sounds the same or similar to Pulser's, if they dont have a copy of it. What is stopping me from making a song after Pulser's is released, and claim it was the one that I copyrighted before hand.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Chrono yes, but how would I be able to proove that my copyrighted song sounds the same or similar to Pulser's, if they dont have a copy of it. What is stopping me from making a song after Pulser's is released, and claim it was the one that I copyrighted before hand.

i know what your saying and like i said i'm not an expert on the subject. i'm pretty sure that they would require a copy of the tune that you submit for the copyright. it sounds rediculous, but they have huge underground facilities just to store things like this. i don't know all the details, but the government does have huge archives of information that contain everything from elvis songs to patents on inventions....at least in america...it might be different in canada...

Isnt having the flp or whatever file + samples etc enough proof, since the other guy doesnt have all that?

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller i know what your saying and like i said i'm not an expert on the subject. i'm pretty sure that they would require a copy of the tune that you submit for the copyright. it sounds rediculous, but they have huge underground facilities just to store things like this. i don't know all the details, but the government does have huge archives of information that contain everything from elvis songs to patents on inventions....at least in america...it might be different in canada...

yeah it would make the most sense to have a copy submitted with the copyright application, but I've actually submitted a copyright for an artistic piece before (not music) and they gave me the copyright without seeing or requiring a copy.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ-Fuq Isnt having the flp or whatever file + samples etc enough proof, since the other guy doesnt have all that?

this is what I would suspect if they actually stole your original master version.. but if they simply used the same melody or other elements they would have a production copy aswell.

well as you can see from the flag in the fourum im british...

sending an orginal master copy to yourself before an initial release would be viable in the british courts......im not sure about america, cuz different states have different policies.....

___________________
when you dream, there are no rules,people can fly, anything can happen. Sometimes theres a moment as your waking that you become aware of the world around you, but your still dreaming....-astral projection

Hey guys,

Like I've said before it all depends on where you live. In the US in particular the 'mail to yourself' thing isn't 100% proof, because as far as the courts see it, you had that envelope in your possesion and could have steamed open an envelope with an old date on it and inserted somone else's new track... Plus if you DO decide to sue someone and use that as your proof, the copyright office will STILL require you to register the work before you're allowed to sue. So you're really not saving any $$$ by not registering, you're just taking away some valueable proof that you're the original artist.

Head on over to http://www.loc.gov/copyright/ for information about copyrighting music. You'd be using form PA to copyright your composition and work, or if you're copyrighting a particular live performance or different sound recording of a previously registered work, you use form SR. The fee is only $35 I think, and if you neatly organize the materials you send to them, you can put a whole CDs worth of songs in the package and call it all one title, thus getting all 15 songs or so protected for $35 plus the envelope. Thats not so hard is it? Plus, when they eventually finish your registration a year later or so, the effective date of protection becomes the DAY they first received it, so all you need to do is send certified mail and look up the shipping status online - once they've received the package, if you're sure you didn't fuck anything up, you're officially protected.

Cheers

America is backwards anyway


And if i made a track, I would post a copy to a solicitor where he could keep it locked away, then i wouldnt get screwed.

God bless the UK.

good point mate.......a solicitor would be handy...

just need a bit more financial backing for one

___________________
when you dream, there are no rules,people can fly, anything can happen. Sometimes theres a moment as your waking that you become aware of the world around you, but your still dreaming....-astral projection