How do you even dare to compare such different countries as Israel and Egypt? Egypt has 12 times the population of Israel (saudi arabia 3 times)! please use GDP / person in that case otherwise it doesn't say much... And as you probably know, Isreal has a lot higher GDP / person than any other arab country. I really hope you understand they don't have as much money as you do to invest in education. It is hard to know for me but saudi arabia do have good universities, don't they?

And still i think you miss my point. How should the arabs (palestine) learn to invest in theriself if they are a poor opressed people? israelis are smart, well educated etc, of course you see their obvious mistakes, but they don't. So how is your proposal to make this work if not by supporting their education etc..?

Last edited by St_Andrew on Oct-23-2003 at 12:11

YOepus, do you have any stats for the govt funding that goes into the settlements, such as Ariel, inside the occupied territories? I read an article last summer that it was so large and secretive no one actually knows

What I took from this article was that many muslim run countries fail to adjust their far fetch thinking (im talking about the extremists and even those that chant on the streets about death this and death that) to a place where you can suggest spending money on schools instead of armies as a means to end their troubles. They are blood hungry human beings, free of rational thought.

The same way some Cubs fans would actually kill that guy cause of the screw up in baseball - the same lack of human sense and compassion is holding back many Arab nations from moving forward in industry/technology/social infrastructure.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeJulez YOepus, do you have any stats for the govt funding that goes into the settlements, such as Ariel, inside the occupied territories? I read an article last summer that it was so large and secretive no one actually knows

No I don't, but to be honest I don't think its that much. I think even recently it has stopped completely. I know the US congress wanted to subtract the funds Israel spends on settlements (or was it on areas of the new wall they don't agree with) from the available loan of funds. I remember that it was not very much.

The wall that Israel is building has an approx. retail suggest value of 1 billion - settlement expense I'm sure are maximum that much.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew How do you even dare to compare such different countries as Israel and Egypt?

Hey I just put the figures up; your the one who compares.

quote:

It is hard to know for me but saudi arabia do have good universities, don't they?

No they don't they aren't world renowned for anything really. Most Saudis come to the USA and the west for their unversity training. You should see some of the Saudia people I've hung around here there past year with - those guys are loaded with money. Why don't they invest it in themselves?

quote:

And still i think you miss my point. How should the arabs (palestine) learn to invest in theriself if they are a poor opressed people?

Read the article - you see Arabs are not all poor stupid oppressed people; they do have an intellectual elite. The majority of the Arab intellecutal elite likes to blame all their problems on everyone but themselves, you don't learn anything by doing this. Other Arab elites (such as the 40 that made this report) think no, our problems are our own and we can't go on blaming the world for everything that is wrong. Only by looking at what our problems are, why it is such, and then fixing it can we prosper.

Believe me Arabs are much wealthier then other third world countries who have still been able to advance themselves up as well. There is no excuse really, they can invest in themselves.

They key with education is you don't need to educate EVERYONE, you just need to educated ENOUGH in the right way.

Why should the west build them 10 schools if they won't even build 1? When they build one, and then one more, then and only then will it be resonable for the west to help them build more schools. You have to see their interest in education; what good is a school if the people aren't ready to learn?

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Hey I just put the figures up; your the one who compares.

You used it as an argument, but it is no argument...

quote:

No they don't they aren't world renowned for anything really. Most Saudis come to the USA and the west for their unversity training. You should see some of the Saudia people I've hung around here there past year with - those guys are loaded with money. Why don't they invest it in themselves?

Perhaps it's because they already have endless with money and will have a good future another 200 years or so without doing anything... and besides i searched google a bit and found many saudi universities so that bad can't it be.

quote:

Read the article - you see Arabs are not all poor stupid oppressed people; they do have an intellectual elite. The majority of the Arab intellecutal elite likes to blame all their problems on everyone but themselves, you don't learn anything by doing this. Other Arab elites (such as the 40 that made this report) think no, our problems are our own and we can't go on blaming the world for everything that is wrong. Only by looking at what our problems are, why it is such, and then fixing it can we prosper.

Isn't this a problem more in general than in the arab world? of course the intellectual elite/leaders blame others to remain the elite. it is just easier to do so in countries with less smart non elite. So even here the solution is educate the general population more.

quote:

Believe me Arabs are much wealthier then other third world countries who have still been able to advance themselves up as well. There is no excuse really, they can invest in themselves.

Africa can't really invest in themselves (and will remain poor and unpeaceful until someone invest in them). Asia got a lot of investment help from western countries· most countries going from third world to western world standard get help in one way or another.

quote:

They key with education is you don't need to educate EVERYONE, you just need to educated ENOUGH in the right way.

True, so what's the problem

quote:

Why should the west build them 10 schools if they won't even build 1? When they build one, and then one more, then and only then will it be resonable for the west to help them build more schools. You have to see their interest in education; what good is a school if the people aren't ready to learn?

When are people ready to learn? Make them ready to learn instead of waiting another 3000 suicide bombings (probably they aren't ready then either).

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew When are people ready to learn? Make them ready to learn instead of waiting another 3000 suicide bombings (probably they aren't ready then either).

Thats exaclty the issue; you can't make them learn. They have to decide they want to learn. Only once they want to learn can you teach. Otherwise, your just wasting both your and their time and money.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Thats exaclty the issue; you can't make them learn. They have to decide they want to learn. Only once they want to learn can you teach. Otherwise, your just wasting both your and their time and money.

when do you think they will decide to learn? when they have schools to go to, or when the israeli army is outside their door?

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew when do you think they will decide to learn? when they have schools to go to, or when the israeli army is outside their door?

well said man!!and it is all true.

___________________
Mystic Mind - DJ Mixes
http://soundcloud.com/mystic-mind

Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/DJMysticMind

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew when do you think they will decide to learn? when they have schools to go to, or when the israeli army is outside their door?

the article didnt refer to the paletinians alone but to all the arab countries, that excuse doesnt count for the poverty in syria, egypt, yemen... that israeli army outside their door excuse doesnt work there.

___________________
If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy the article didnt refer to the paletinians alone but to all the arab countries, that excuse doesnt count for the poverty in syria, egypt, yemen... that israeli army outside their door excuse doesnt work there.

if you encourage them instead of bombing them at least you will have a better palestine (which i see as the biggest middle east problem right now...), then after that you can continue with the rest of the arab world....