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Originally posted by Yoepus I just wanted to address one issue here; pointless debate. And indeed we all must concede we are pointlessly debating here. I have changed peoples views on somethings (perhaps that the Romans had the gauls invade them alongside the goths ) and other people have changed my view on many things here as well (I know like bagdahd bob for one). The net effect of this of course will probably be zero as well. So what, we change a few opinions here and there right? What's it all going to end in, probably nothing or very little on the world we live in. But if you take that approach, whats the point of life? Your life will probably be meaningless and have no effect on the bearing of the earth. And lets say you become some rich and powerful very important leader. You are written about in all histories, so what have you done now? Who will remember you in 2000 years from now when all your work has been lost and made to dust? It doesn't matter, might as well just quit living now right...? Well those that take the latter approach to life, probably take the same point to debate. The secret to life is living it, debate is a part of living life. I debate here to practice my debating skills, to learn from other peoples views, to feel happy (and superior) at times, and to spend away many hours from my real responsibilities like homework. So is the debate here completely meaningless, yes. But then again all debate is meaningless it is the perspective we look at it through. So what, we change the US president, your nader gets into control.. so what, will that change my life? Probably not, will it change yours, unlikely. Don't take such a cynical view. Learn to enjoy and express.

a toast to that

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

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Originally posted by Yoepus And lets say you become some rich and powerful very important leader. You are written about in all histories, so what have you done now? Who will remember you in 2000 years from now when all your work has been lost and made to dust? It doesn't matter, might as well just quit living now right...?

I'm not sure about this one, Asterix and Obelix did live 2000 years ago, and yet their adventures are still quite popular.

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1+1=10

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If the US is granting Iraq money instead of loaning it in light of its outstanding debts, how is the US expecting Iraq to purchase military equipment? It’s simply ludicrous. Furthermore, ************ of the legality/justification of what got us there, freedom is what the majority IRAQIS wanted according to the latest polls

The lastest polls?? Polls always are manipulated justify a cerain view point.That's a laugh...so cnn has gone around and asked evryone about freedom???? Ofcoarse they want freedom ..everyone wants freedom but there is a big difference between freedom and being invaded!

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music is worth living for

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Originally posted by 2hardcore4u You see I can bring up stupid facts up over and over again . I'm here to say that your debates are weak and meaningless for the most. I use to read them for a long time before saying anything. But for the most part this is a Joke . And you sitting here debating your petty issues in America while things are are going in the shitter is just stupid. You are right I am mad and I'm not here to deabte. I am here to tell it like it is!

Hardcore, your posts in here are a lot like mine...full of opinions with no real substance. I honestly think if everyone's posts were like yours and mine, the political forum would be a boring place. You'd spout your opinion, I'd spout mine...all we'd end up with is I'd know what you think. You'd know what I think. We could go back and forth without getting anywhere.

You say you are "here to tell it like it is." Support your opinions. Give us substance. Provoke thought. Teach me. I listen. I want to learn. I personally don't have the ability (maybe not the knowledge) to participate in most of these discussions but I read them and on occasion even pull out a map or look further into something that I find interesting.

There's nothing wrong I suppose with inserting an opinion here and there (I do it) but if you actually expect to discuss problems and potential solutions, I think you (and I and others like us) need to offer more than emotionally charged generalizations.

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Originally posted by Echo of Silence Hardcore, your posts in here are a lot like mine...full of opinions with no real substance. I honestly think if everyone's posts were like yours and mine, the political forum would be a boring place. You'd spout your opinion, I'd spout mine...all we'd end up with is I'd know what you think. You'd know what I think. We could go back and forth without getting anywhere. You say you are "here to tell it like it is." Support your opinions. Give us substance. Provoke thought. Teach me. I listen. I want to learn. I personally don't have the ability (maybe not the knowledge) to participate in most of these discussions but I read them and on occasion even pull out a map or look further into something that I find interesting. There's nothing wrong I suppose with inserting an opinion here and there (I do it) but if you actually expect to discuss problems and potential solutions, I think you (and I and others like us) need to offer more than emotionally charged generalizations.

They are emotionally charged. But provoking thought isn't changing the way most people think. I just stated an opnion and I said there is not point in me deabting this becasue it doesn't change America. Debate has gone for years . The fact is the people who need to be convinced won't be convinced ever ( america ) ,...becasue that is they way they are. I'm here to rattle some cages becasue that's the only thing that can be done ! The only thing sadly the US govenment understands is using force!

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music is worth living for

As i said in the other thread, US has a lot of problems to deal with. And the biggest problem is that you don't realize that they are big problems for you (as 2hardcore4u said...). Like environmental issues, poor people, death penalty etc. You (at least the polticians) don't really care as much as you should. No country is perfect but US (as the most powerful country in this world) should be a good example not a bad example of how a country should work.

I think the solution to this is to send everyone in US to scandinavia and see how our political system works

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1971 – After Trudeau left a session with Nixon in the Oval Office, the president said to H.R. Haldeman, his chief of staff: "That Trudeau, he's a clever son of a bitch." Then he said to Secretary of State Henry Kissinger: "What in the Christ is he talking about?"

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Trudeau so infuriated Nixon during the visit that Nixon called him "a pompous egghead" and told Haldeman: "You've got to put it to these people for kicking the U.S. around after what we did for that lousy son of a bitch. Give it to somebody around here." This was when Nixon ordered Haldeman to plant a negative story about Trudeau with columnist Jack Anderson

This is how the government deals with things. KI can keep it coming too!

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music is worth living for

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Sigh …. people still adhere to cookie cutter/tit-for-tat diplomacy nowadays?

Thats how America thinks ..so you are surprised when someone else thinks like that? When the strongest nation acts like that how do expect other nations or people to act. Again not quite like America does. And I don't nee to bring up alot of facts as you are doing it for and one of you guys here ends up soopring my issues in some sort of way with me

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music is worth living for

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Originally posted by 2hardcore4u The lastest polls?? Polls always are manipulated justify a cerain view point.That's a laugh...so cnn has gone around and asked evryone about freedom???? Ofcoarse they want freedom ..everyone wants freedom but there is a big difference between freedom and being invaded!

And the media always lies about everything it reports on. In actuality everything is going so well in Baghdad that it has become a utopian paradise of people dancing together, getting along, and rejoicing over their newfound wealth. You see how easy it is to make unsupported statements? Here's gallup's polling methadology if you would like to critique it:

http://www.gallup.com/help/FAQs/answer.asp?ID=153

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Originally posted by 2hardcore4u Thats how America thinks ..so you are surprised when someone else thinks like that? When the strongest nation acts like that how do expect other nations or people to act. Again not quite like America does. And I don't nee to bring up alot of facts as you are doing it for and one of you guys here ends up soopring my issues in some sort of way with me

No, do you even know what cookie-cutter diplomacy IS? If America did practice cookie-cutter diplomacy you would see cases of the US going to war with N. Korea and China.

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Originally posted by St_Andrew As i said in the other thread, US has a lot of problems to deal with. And the biggest problem is that you don't realize that they are big problems for you (as 2hardcore4u said...). Like environmental issues, poor people, death penalty etc. You (at least the polticians) don't really care as much as you should. No country is perfect but US (as the most powerful country in this world) should be a good example not a bad example of how a country should work. I think the solution to this is to send everyone in US to scandinavia and see how our political system works

Who doesn't realise this? There's a reason why there's a huge split between the dems and the repubs in congress and outside of congress.

But at any rate I half agree ... political system yes, economic system no

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Originally posted by occrider No, do you even know what cookie-cutter diplomacy IS? If America did practice cookie-cutter diplomacy you would see cases of the US going to war with N. Korea and China.

They operate cookie cutter policy when it is convient to them ..They dont go to war with china and Korea becasue it's would be a disaster if they did. And if they go to war with korea that is the same to going to war with China. Like I said before they only go after easy targers.

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music is worth living for