quote:

Originally posted by Heinz Im talking about the last 300 years! Napolean against Prussia. The Prussian-Franco War, where Germans took over the Saarland. WW1, WWII. and from then on, both nations have just set aside they problems and just have moved on peaceful next to each other. that is fine, but no union between them! the french and the germans!? NO! It cant happen! -GERMAN NATIONALIST HEINZ-

So you conviniently excluded the Thirty Years War when France under Richelieu helped you fight against the Catholic forces. If it hadn't been so, you'd be an Austro-Hungarian provice now.

But aside from that, I don't see why you're so opposed to the union between your two countries. Nowadays you have nothing to dispute, and all your disputes are solved. Admit it or not, but France is the Germany's biggest ally. And if you don't accept such a situation, you're putting yourself in a vulnerable position where you will be forced to do what the americans say. While France still has some impact on the global politics, Germany alone has none. You don't have any nukes, and your military is weak. Let alone that any drastic german military increase will bring unpleasant memories to the rest of the world. On the other hand, France doesn't have enough population and resources to have the status of a real superpower. But together, with a Franco-German union, you would be a formidable oponent. Besides, who would you have as your ally in europe now? Britain is too close to the americans. Italy has shown it's worth in WW2, when it was unable to conquer Ethiopia and Albania at the peak of it's military and nationalist power. East european countries are also weak. Russia maybe? But I guess you would dislike that even more. So your only other option is to pretend to have sovereignity and side with the americans. But in such a situation you wouldn't have nearly as much say as you would as a part of a strong european superpower.

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1+1=10

quote:

So you conviniently excluded the Thirty Years War when France under Richelieu helped you fight against the Catholic forces. If it hadn't been so, you'd be an Austro-Hungarian provice now. But aside from that, I don't see why you're so opposed to the union between your two countries. Nowadays you have nothing to dispute, and all your disputes are solved. Admit it or not, but France is the Germany's biggest ally. And if you don't accept such a situation, you're putting yourself in a vulnerable position where you will be forced to do what the americans say. While France still has some impact on the global politics, Germany alone has none. You don't have any nukes, and your military is weak. Let alone that any drastic german military increase will bring unpleasant memories to the rest of the world. On the other hand, France doesn't have enough population and resources to have the status of a real superpower. But together, with a Franco-German union, you would be a formidable oponent. Besides, who would you have as your ally in europe now? Britain is too close to the americans. Italy has shown it's worth in WW2, when it was unable to conquer Ethiopia and Albania at the peak of it's military and nationalist power. East european countries are also weak. Russia maybe? But I guess you would dislike that even more. So your only other option is to pretend to have sovereignity and side with the americans. But in such a situation you wouldn't have nearly as much say as you would as a part of a strong european superpower.

You have some basis here. very good. i have been defeated in this debate. but if france and germany unite, all of europe must unite. including great britian, and the east. anyways, the east needs to be helped badly, they still recovering from 50 years communist rule.

-[SIZE=4]STILL[/SIZE=4]GERMAN NATIONALIST HEINZ-

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Yes, I do agree it is best for the Europe to unite as a whole. Still, the British pose a problem in such a scenario, as they too have the serious "lost superpower status" complex. Therefore they always have to prove to themselves they still hold some power, so they are always obstructing EU policies and are hard to give up on their sovereignity.

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I hope Europe never unites as one superpower! I'm glad to live in the UK which must be the most stubburn country out of all the European countries, I think the idea for the single European currency sucked! all the countries with shit currencies joining the Euro is what has seemed to have fucked up the Euro for everyone else.

The politics of all European countries are to different some are far right others far left it would never work.

What people don't realise with Europe is every country is so different from the other, and there is so much history behind us all, like I couldn't quite picture a joint army its hard enough for most European nationalities to get along with eachother on holiday in medditterian let alone fighting as one united fighting force it would next work.

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"We must create a central European economic association through common customs treaties, to include France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Austria Hungary, Poland, and perhaps Italy, Sweden and Norway. This association will not have any common constitutional supreme authority and all its members will be formally equal, but in practice will be under German leadership and must stabilise Germany's economic dominance over Mitteleuropa"

This was written by a German politician before World War 1, cited in Ferguson, N., The Pity of War.

Better late than never.

I wish the European Union the best of luck, I am still trying to figure out how 25 nations as it soon will be can all sit together and put the interests of E.U. over the interests of individual nations of Europe unless most follow France and Germany like zombies. Lets be honest folks do you think that France will put the policies and interests of Lithuania, Malta, Latvia or Slovenia to name a few above its greater purpose to become a superpower again. This idea of the European Union can go no further than a loose grouping of nation states, with the larger nations dictating to the smaller nations the way it will and shall be. Good luck Europe. Only time shall tell the tale.

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