Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > And yet another explosion in Turkey
Pages (2): « 1 [2]   Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
NYCTrancefan
Destination Everywhere!



Registered: Jul 2003
Location: New York City in a Café del Mar mood

Vesa I must agree that you make some very good points indeed, wish more people logically thought out their arguments, I concur with you fully on your post.


___________________
Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

Old Post Nov-21-2003 03:18  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for NYCTrancefan Click here to Send NYCTrancefan a Private Message Visit NYCTrancefan's homepage! Add NYCTrancefan to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by Vesa
Whatever Al-Qaida's long-term goals, its actions are currently strategical operations in a war against the Trio, not anti-secularism. Those Paris attacks happened as a revenge by an Algerian opposition group who wanted to punish the French Government for meddling into the aftermath of Algerian elections. Similarly, Al-Qaida's latest two attacks are a revenge against the Coalition governments for meddling into the war of US against Islamists. Why else would such non-secular symbolic targets have been chosen as two synagogues, a bank and en embassy, instead of ultra-secular Western-style night clubs or movie theaters?

My guess is that the latest two operations were not directed against secular Turks. Turkey was IMO just a random location of opportunity for an anti-Israel attack and an anti-US attack. Thomas Barnett would probably agree with me on this interpretation because Turkey is what he calls a seam state between the Core and the Gap i.e. the most likely location for a clash.

Turkish civilians said that it was a surprise, but violence doesn't come out of nowhere and not without warning signs. What is sad is that almost everybody in the Western World ignores their own responsibility for this fast escalation of Islamist terror.



I'm afraid I'm going to have to kind of agree and disagree with this statement Vesa ... haha furthermore upon more reflection, I think that I'm going to have to disagree with what I had originally said myself. I would go so far to say that Turkey, and all the Muslim countries were targeted with a specific goal and master plan in mind asides from the mere fact that they are easy targets or they are ultimately trying to hurt us ... although that probably does play some role. If we examine the roots of Al-Qaeda, the organization's goal is not to destroy America or try to kill as many of us as possible ... Bin Laden is probably no fool, he knows that no matter what he does, he cannot cause permenant damage to the US as a superpower. So what I think he is trying to do is acheive the original goal he had set out to accomplish since the 80's ... the radicalisation of Muslim society/nations. A return to fundamentalist states.

The 9/11 attacks have essentially brought his organization worldwide condemnation, however, more importantly it has brought about worldwide attention to his organization. He has essentially purchased the best marketing campaign that terrorism can buy. Now that everybody knows who he is, does he plan more concerted attacks against western nations? No, he carries out attacks against western targets inside muslim countries ... inspiring fear and death among westerners and muslims alike. However, are these attacks directed at the west? I would say no ... I would say that these attacks are directed against the Muslim people themselves. Al-Qaeda is in Africa, they're in Saudi Arabia, they're in Turkey, they're everywhere. And while they're inspiring fear among Muslims they are also increasing their popularity and attracting the radicals to their ranks.

So how does this relate all back to Turkey? Well, I would say that Turkey was specifically chosen by Al-Qaeda as a target. The Great Eastern Islamic Raiders Front is a relatively small group that lacks the resources to carry out the attacks this week and last ... Al Qaeda does not. Therefore Al-Qaeda chose this out of a hundred possible locations ... so why Turkey? On the one hand I would say that Turkey's relations to the west plays a role: they have strong ties to the US and Israel, they're a member of NATO, they offered to send troops to Iraq, etc. However I would state, that the reasoning goes deeper than that. Turkey is essentially the anti-thesis for everything Al-Qaeda stands for ... it's not only not a fundamentalist Islamic state, but it's a secular democratic state in the Islamic world. Over the past year, Turkey's government has been pushing through sweeping democratic reforms more so than any other government in modern Turkish history. The hopes are to gain acceptance in the European community, and already the EU has promised to hold hearings about Turkey's admittance into the EU at the end of 2004. By causing chaos and attempting to radicalise Turkey, Al-Qaeda hopes to undermine this acceptance by Europe and encourage Turks to believe that the west will have nothing to do with the Islamic world and therefore Turkey should look towards Islamic fundamentalism as the path they should follow.

Just my perspective ...

Edit: I thought this concept made sense by examining what Al-Qaeda had to gain from such an attack. What the hell do they care by killing a few more Jews and some 20 or so British consulate workers? Is it really WORTH that much effort? But then look at its effect on the Muslim population ... it has an effect on so many levels. Those people who want to westernize/democratize become scared: "the more we become democratic the more we are threatened ... we should just revert to Islam to stop the killings." Those people who have radical tendenicies: "Look how powerful Al-Qaeda is in trying to save our religion. We should support their cause." The poor/uneducated/easily manipulated: "Look at how they are attacking the great satan and the threat from the west ... once western influence has been purged from our country, all hardships shall cease to exist."


___________________
Retro ...

Last edited by occrider on Nov-21-2003 at 07:38

Old Post Nov-21-2003 04:20  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for occrider Click here to Send occrider a Private Message Add occrider to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
ProDiGaL
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Earth, Solar System

Very interesting post occi, i agree


___________________

Old Post Nov-21-2003 05:21 
Click Here to See the Profile for ProDiGaL Click here to Send ProDiGaL a Private Message Add ProDiGaL to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
iLoveDave
Guest



Registered: Not Yet
Location:

bastard Occrider.. I hate when I have to agree with you. except for the USA as being a prime target of the Al-Qeada (die american scum!)

Old Post Nov-21-2003 05:30 
Add  to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
TranceGiant
randomly disappoints



Registered: Jun 2001
Location: (Strudel)-City that never sleeps

I've said it already but I'll say it again: In 50 years we'll look back and doubtlessly see all of this as World War 3. Sure, a diffuse war where time and space are stretched, a flexible battle with an almost invisible enemy, similiar to a bunch of bees attacking an elephant but nevertheless a full-on war with more and more victims (and I believe that this is only the beginning, in terms of quality and quantity of terroristic destruction). With time this war will become as conventional as it gets tho, with WOMD's and fully declared wars on specific countries which refuse to cooperate (Iraq and Afghanistan as a start).

There are four parties:

"The trio" that gradually woke up and realized that this is a war. They experienced it first-hand.

The terrorists that tooks this dead-serious from the very beginning. There is no single doubt about THEIR intention. There is no single doubt about how far they're determined to fulfill their goal. They play since the very first minute.

Arab countries that find themselves in a dilemma between the mostly poor, brainwashed population that opften sympathizes with Al-Quaida and such (for reasons mentioned by occrider) but on the other hand don't wanna become another victiom to a bunch of psychotic extremists who will not accept anything but their own Islamo-fascistic (a mix between Iran and Taliban) rule.

Europeans who apparently suffer from the Stockholm-syndrome where the hostage feels sympathies and identifies with the kindapper. Equally brainwashed does the population not even THINK about the reality they're living in but instead bilndly rely on some slogans, still traumatized by WW2 and full with anti-american feelins of envy.

Turkey is just another brick in the wall. Forget all the symbolism and possible metaphoric intentions that these attacks were based oen. At the end of the day loseing yourself in such details lets you forget the big picture: Isalmistic extremists on an ego-trip vs. the Free Civilization we have managed to created in thousands of years (with all its pros and cons). US politics, Turkey's alliances and such are just excuses and never to be mistaken with the actual reasons for all of it to happen.

As Vesa said...5 years max. and we've got some airplanes crashing into Europeans skyscrapers.


Enough pessismism for today

Old Post Nov-21-2003 11:41  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for TranceGiant Click here to Send TranceGiant a Private Message Visit TranceGiant's homepage! Add TranceGiant to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
ProDiGaL
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Earth, Solar System

the fear is strong in this one.....


___________________

Old Post Nov-22-2003 13:55 
Click Here to See the Profile for ProDiGaL Click here to Send ProDiGaL a Private Message Add ProDiGaL to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
LouisLaBelle
trancEaddict in JAIL



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

These attacks are carried out by Muslim extremists who have two enemies. The world already know these Muslims want to eliminate the power of America, Israel and England. But what else the world hasn't quite realized yet is that the attacks are against Jews in Turkey , and Christians and Hindus elsewere. The world must begin to realize that these attacks are for one purpose the spread of Islam.
quote:
Absolutely correct, frankly if I were the French or the Germans, with a large Muslim minority I would be on alert, especially in the case of France.
NYC trance is right and when attacks do happen in France and Germany or Italy against the Christian majority. The world will watch socialism in europe fall, and a new emergance of Religous Nationalism in Europe that will reak havoc, as the people see that they are not immune to moslem attacks just because they don't support America, but are being attack because they worship the Cross.

Old Post Nov-24-2003 02:46 
Click Here to See the Profile for LouisLaBelle Click here to Send LouisLaBelle a Private Message Add LouisLaBelle to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
WuZaFuC
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Montreal

quote:
Originally posted by LouisLaBelle
... The world must begin to realize that these attacks are for one purpose the spread of Islam... The world will watch socialism in europe fall... as the people see that they are not immune to moslem attacks just because they don't support America, but are being attack because they worship the Cross.


WTF!!??

Old Post Nov-24-2003 16:35  Egypt
Click Here to See the Profile for WuZaFuC Click here to Send WuZaFuC a Private Message Add WuZaFuC to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > And yet another explosion in Turkey
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

Pages (2): « 1 [2]  
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackTrance Energy 2003 Track [2007] [0]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackPaul van Dyk - "Arctic" [2002]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 22:09.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!