Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > European Officials Refuse to Release Anti-Semitism Report
Pages (2): « 1 [2]   Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
trancaholic
Danish Prophet of Doom



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aalborg

quote:
Originally posted by cfyoung4
I take your point Yoepus, but I would suggest there is a definite possibility that France leverages an uncommon amount of power and control within the EU. While this does not concern me much because I am not a European citizen, I think it would be most troubling if I were a member of the European Community living in a country other than France or perhaps Germany, which also claims distinctive power. In a conglomeration of nation states, all of which are supposedly equal in rank, France appears to view itself as First Among Equals. That's not a criticism, merely an observation. However, this becomes a problem once policy needs to be enforced. Take the instance of a nation's deficits within the EU. Recently, both France and Germany admitted they are breaking the EU rules which state that nations must not create a budget deficit of more than 3 percent of the gross domestic product per year. While some within the EU were upset about France and Germany's willingness to bypass these rules, for the most part, EU members turned a blind eye on the situation and voted not to put sanctions on the two, thereby allowing France and Germany to continue running at a deficit for the 4th year in a row. Now, that's fine and they should be allowed to fix their economies, etc. But earlier this year, France was insistant about expressing its concerns of having certain eastern European countries joining the EU because they didn't want budget deficits to affect the strength of the European economy. So my question is, why is it okay if France does it, but not okay if...say...Poland does it? That, to me, smacks of unfairness considering all are equal within the EU. Anyway, I just feel that there is a definite slant in the European Union and it tilts toward France. That is why I feel France can "influence" certain outcomes such as the release of this report. But that's just my opinion.


I was planning on writing a longer piece of text to answer Renegade's "Blown out of proportion"-question, but you managed to say most of what I have to say - and you are not even European. I'm quite impressed that someone from abroad holds such insight into EU-politics!

Well, I am European, and I am not very fond of the politics put forth by France lately. When I speak to frenchmen in my job I find them quite polite and easy going, but their politicians do seem to hold an arrogant position towards other nations. In fact I'm not sure who I'd rather beat up, Bush or Chirac.
France has been the first in line to condemn the EU member nations going from a left-center majority to a right-center one - Austria and Denmark included. But the truth of the matter is that we have a problem with immigration in Europe, and the shift in political demography is largely a result of this. Leftist politicians in Europe need to wake up and acknowledge the problems, instead of shouting racist at anyone who does. However, due to our history perhaps, doubting the current integration practices are very non-PC, and as long as people like Chirac and Schröder are sitting in key positions things look unlikely to change.
A side effect of the large immigration of people from the middle east is that the average level of anti-Semitism has risen. (And to be frank, although I do not condone it, I can see why Arabs would be anti-Semitists.) Non-immigrants, however, are (in my experience) not getting increasingly anti-Semitic. Most are sick of hearing of the conflict in Israel/Palestine, sick of the number of refugees it causes, and generally tend to side with the Palestinean cause. However, they are not anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, nor are they the ones spitting at Jews for being Jews. In France it might be a different matter - but I assume not.
The cover-up of the report, I bet, is because its conclusions would give rise to these nasty questions about current immigration practices mentioned above. And, if I am right, then that decision is probably due to the French - apparently they run things pretty solidly in Brussel these days.

Old Post Nov-30-2003 19:45  Denmark
Click Here to See the Profile for trancaholic Click here to Send trancaholic a Private Message Add trancaholic to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
imokruok
Lawyers, guns, and money



Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA / Milwaukee, WI

quote:
Originally posted by trancaholic

France has been the first in line to condemn the EU member nations going from a left-center majority to a right-center one - Austria and Denmark included.


That was something that I found particularly disgusting from the French and other left-center governments. If the people of a nation want to elect a center-right majority, it is the business of those individual nations. The way those elections have been criticized, you would think center-right parties were completely illegitimate. The same happened in Switzerland recently - the left went completely crazy. But when the left-wing parties don't present solutions to pressing issues, they can't expect to have the peoples' vote forever.

As for the French, should we have expected anything different with regards to the Growth and Stability Pact? There is "l'exception française," which applies to everything they do.

I agree with you that immigration has become a major issue, as it should be. To combine this idea with the topic of anti-Semitism, check out the quote from Mark Steyn, a popular Anglo columnist:

59 per cent of Europeans think Israel is the biggest threat to world peace. . .At present demographic rates, by 2020 the majority of children in Holland — i.e., the population under 18 — will be Muslim. . .If Americans think it’s difficult getting the Continentals on their side now, wait another decade. In that sense, the Israelis are the canaries in the coalmine.

Last edited by imokruok on Nov-30-2003 at 20:46

Old Post Nov-30-2003 20:31  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for imokruok Click here to Send imokruok a Private Message Add imokruok to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
cfyoung4
Junior tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Los Angeles, CA / Princeton, NJ

quote:
Originally posted by trancaholic

In fact I'm not sure who I'd rather beat up, Bush or Chirac.



quote:
Originally posted by trancaholic
The cover-up of the report, I bet, is because its conclusions would give rise to these nasty questions about current immigration practices mentioned above. And, if I am right, then that decision is probably due to the French - apparently they run things pretty solidly in Brussel these days.


This is precisely my concern. You cannot ductape, plaster, and paint over the ugly spots and hope they don't show through and blemish your otherwise wonderful creation. You've got to change them at their root cause. People are afraid to swim against the stream of popular opinion and instead take a non-confrontational, non-direct approach to problem-solving. They think if they ignore the problem long enough, maybe it will go away of its own accord. But in all matters of importance, we must look at things exactly as they are, without the filter of political correctness disrupting our view. And if amendment is needed, we should work towards that goal. The EU has tremendous possibilities, but be sure the foundations are well set and sturdy. In the end, all we have are our principles. If we neglect them, we falter.


___________________
"Nothing is true; everything is permitted" -- WIlliam S. Burroughs

"We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are." -- Anais Nin

Old Post Nov-30-2003 21:12  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for cfyoung4 Click here to Send cfyoung4 a Private Message Add cfyoung4 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
TranceGiant
randomly disappoints



Registered: Jun 2001
Location: (Strudel)-City that never sleeps

What an excellent discussion on a great highly important current problem. I'm in the unique position of being 1, Jewish 2, Israeli 3, European 4, Austrian(!). I'm meticulously following everything that concerns both inner-European affairs as well the relationship between Europeans, Arab immigrants and Jews as well as the general attitude towards the Middle East conflict.

It is a fact that Swedish teachers are scared of talking about the Holocaust in history lessons in schools with a high degree of Muslim pupils. It is a fact that Amsterdam (wich has been one of the most "liberal" cities towards Jews) undergoes a new wave of antisemitic attacks mainly carried out by Marroccan immigrants. It is a fact that women get beat up in Berlin's subway stations for wearing the david star (by Arab immigrants). It is a fact that 3 weeks ago 3 memebers of the Jewish community in Vienna ended up hospitalized after leaving the synagogue, beaten up by... *insert North African / Middle Eastern country here*. And it's increasing.

Last weekend I was casually walking through Vienna's main street when I heared people chanting and protesting, yet another "peace demonstration" with women covered up in Palestinian Kefiyas shouting the usual "Zionism = Racism" slogans. Hundreds of Arab guys holding transparents with highly anti-Israelic remarks (I think I know where constructive criticism ends and where pure hatred starts). Anyway, let's say it kinda ruined my afternoon shopping walk. But it is another great example of the neo-antisemitism that has found a new chic mask: It's not religous anymore (see "They crucified Jesus" in the middle ages) it's not racist anymore (see 19th century pseudo-scientific theory of semitic races) it doesn't use simply stereotypes (see "jews are greedy. Jews control the world. Jews are Bolshevists"). Nah, today European antisemitsm is undergoing a renaissance that is basically the result of Arab hatred of Jews (which is old skool Nazi-regime antisemitism. "Mein Kampf" and the "elders of Zion" are the most popular books in the Arab world today), the "enough is enough" mentality concerning the feelings towards the Holocaust (especially germans who say they're sick of being reminded of what was done and that Jews should stopy "whining"), and the widely accepted criticism of Israel. The latter can be so well used to subtly include some of the old clichés, it's wonderful! My favourite would be the comparison between Nazis and today's Israeli politics. It wonderfully combines all three cornerstones of neo-antisemitism I mentioned.

Then again most of the Muslim immigrants in Europe are not integrated into society. Culture clash at its "best", especially in France, combined with a lack of education has always been an ideal basis for prejudice and eventually hatred. Too bad that many Europeans embrace it and take advantage of it by seeing it as a justification of their pseudo criticism against Israel (read "Arabs are semites, ergo they can't be antisemitic"). You see how the puzzle fits perfectly. You see how the threat is immanent and growing.


P.S.: Good points concerning France. I remember how it was heading the anti-Austrian capagin resulting in economic sanctions against us after the 1999 victory of Haider's freedom party. The epitome of hipocrisy when you think of Le Pen's recent results. What a snake of a country.


___________________
"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

Old Post Nov-30-2003 22:11  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for TranceGiant Click here to Send TranceGiant a Private Message Visit TranceGiant's homepage! Add TranceGiant to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

I'm glad to see that we at least can all come here on agreement on one point; The French sux


___________________
SAVE ZIONIST MUSTARD: BUY ZIONIST KETCHUP!


Click here to support the free mustard alliance.

Old Post Nov-30-2003 22:59  Israel
Click Here to See the Profile for Yoepus Click here to Send Yoepus a Private Message Visit Yoepus's homepage! Add Yoepus to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
NYCTrancefan
Destination Everywhere!



Registered: Jul 2003
Location: New York City in a Café del Mar mood

I hate getting on the French bashing bandwagon, but the more that I examine the E.U. and the way it is set up, their idea of an all egalitarian European society is going to be sorely tested by time a Constitution is approved. How many Europeans on this board can honestly say that France and Germany are not intent on making Europe their pinnacle of influence on the world stage, contra the United States. If France, German, i.e the larger nations will look at themselves as equals with Malta, Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania even Austria then to that I say . I hope the EU succeeds because I would welcome another body dealing with world issues and for once the blame can be passed around, without the U.S being the brunt of it. Problem is I am still trying to figure out 25 nations, just as many different languages, cultures and history attempting to harmonise while putting aside their own national interests. Good luck.


___________________
Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

Old Post Dec-01-2003 03:36  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for NYCTrancefan Click here to Send NYCTrancefan a Private Message Visit NYCTrancefan's homepage! Add NYCTrancefan to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
dj_ilan_yosef
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Global Ambassador

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY.... i want everyone to read and understand this, esspecially those Jews out there who haven't put up a fight against this shit yet!

As a member of various boards worldwide I'm somewhat overwhelmed with all that I read on a daily basis. Just to name a few (and these are just incidents from emails i currently have in my inbox, i cant even explain to you ow many more i've deleted and how many more incidents i have failed to report here, none the less, one incident is more than enough!!!)

In Belgium, thugs beat up the chief rabbi, kicking him in the face and calling him "a dirty Jew."

Two synagogues in Brussels were firebombed; a third, in Charleroi, was sprayed with automatic weapon fire.

In Britain, the cover of the New Statesman, a left-wing magazine, depicted a large Star of David stabbing the Union Jack.

Oxford professor Tom Paulin, a noted poet, told an Egyptian interviewer that American Jews who move to the West Bank and Gaza "should be shot dead."

A Jewish yeshiva student reading the Psalms was stabbed 27 times on a London bus.

"Anti-Semitism", wrote a columnist in The Spectator, "has become respectable . . . at London dinner tables." She quoted one member of the House of Lords: "The Jews have been asking for it and now, thank God, we can say what we think at last."

In Italy, the daily paper La Stampa published a Page 1 cartoon: A tank emblazoned with a Jewish star points its gun at the baby Jesus, who pleads, "Surely they don't want to kill me again?"

In Corriere Della Sera, another cartoon showed Jesus trapped in his tomb, unable to rise, because Ariel Sharon, with rifle in hand, is sitting on the sepulcher. The caption:"Non resurrexit."

In Germany, a rabbinical student was beaten up in downtown Berlin and a grenade was thrown into a Jewish cemetery. Thousands of neo-Nazis held a rally, marching near a synagogue on the Jewish Sabbath. Graffiti appeared on a synagogue in the western town of Herford: "Six million were not enough."

In Ukraine, skinheads attacked Jewish worshippers and smashed the windows of Kiev's main synagogue. Ukrainian police denied that the attack was anti-Jewish.

In Greece, Jewish graves were desecrated in Loannina and vandals hurled paint at the Holocaust memorial in Salonica.

In Holland, an anti-Israel demonstration featured swastikas, photos of Hitler, and chants of "Sieg Heil" and "Jews into the sea."

In Slovakia, the Jewish cemetery of Kosice was invaded and 135 tombstones destroyed.

But nowhere have the flames of anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France:

In Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil. A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred Dreyfus in Paris, the words "Dirty Jew" were painted.

In Bondy, 15 men beat up members of a Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The bus that takes Jewish children to school in Aubervilliers has been attacked three times in the last 14 months.

According to the police, metropolitan Paris has seen 10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents per day since Easter. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been defaced with slogans proclaiming "Jews to the gas chambers" and "Death to the Jews."

The weekly journal Le Nouvel Observateur published an appalling libel: It said Israeli soldiers rape Palestinian women, so that their relatives will kill them to preserve "family honor."

The French ambassador to Great Britain was not sacked -- and did not apologize -- when it was learned that he had told guests at a London dinner that the world's troubles were the fault of "...that shitty little country, Israel."

"At the start of the 21st century," writes Pierre-Andre Taguieff, a well-known social scientist, in a new book, "we are discovering that Jews are once again select targets of violence. . . Hatred of the Jews has returned to France." But of course, it never left. Not France; not Europe.

Anti-Semitism, the oldest bigotry known to man, has been a part of European society since time immemorial. In the aftermath of the Holocaust, open Jew-hatred became unfashionable; but fashions change, and Europe is reverting to type.

To be sure, some Europeans are shocked by the reemergence of Jew-hatred all over their continent. But the more common reaction has been complacency.

"Stop saying that there is anti-Semitism in France," President Jacques Chirac scolded a Jewish editor in January. "There is no anti-Semitism in France."

The European media have been vicious in condemning Israel's self-defense against Palestinian terrorism in the West Bank; they have been far less agitated about antiJewish terror in their own backyard.

They are making a grievous mistake. For if today the violence and vitriol are aimed at the Jews, tomorrow they will be aimed at the Christians. A timeless lesson of history is that it rarely ends with the Jews.

Militant Islamist extremists were attacking and killing Jews long before they attacked and killed Americans on Sept. 11.

The Nazis first set out to incinerate the Jews; in the end, all of Europe was ablaze. Jews, it is often said, are the canary in the coal mine of civilization. When they become the objects of savagery and hate, it means the air has been poisoned and an explosion is soon to come. If Europeans don't rise up and turn against the Jew-haters, it is only a matter of time until the Jew-haters rise up and turn against them.

French Anti-Semitism Finally and long overdue, your people, oppressed and disgraced by hatred and maliciousness, have achieved justice: now you enjoy full citizen's rights, but you'll remain Jews nonetheless." Franz Grillparzer (1791-1872), Austrian author.

A gunman opened fire on a kosher butcher's shop (and, of course, the butcher) in Toulouse, France; a Jewish couple in their 20s were beaten up by five men in Villeurbanne, France. The woman was pregnant; a Jewish school was broken into and vandalized in Sarcelles, France. This was in the past week.

According to the Anti-Defamation League, from September 9, 2000, at the start of the intifada, through November 20, 2001, there were some 330 acts of anti-Semitism just in and around Paris. In addition to literally scores of firebombing of synagogues, just before Rosh Hashanah, 200 Arabs attacked Jews on the Champs Elysees. The pace has only picked up since then:

In December, a French cinema in Paris refused to allow a Hanukah showing of Harry Potter to 800 Jewish children because of French-Palestinian threats (the threats were confirmed by French police who then went on to do nothing, not even giving details). It was one incident in an eventful month when synagogues continued to be firebombed and a Jewish kindergarten was vandalized with anti-Semitic graffiti and set ablaze.

We can understand anti-Semitism among the French people. There is nothing the French love like their traditions and, on the question of hating Jews, they certainly have tradition galore. What, however, can explain the sometimes muted, sometimes defensively outraged reaction of French officials?

Simple. There are approximately 5,000,000 to 6,000,000 Muslims presently living in France and many more arrive daily. There are only about 600,000 Jews still living in France. Moreover, France is the number one European exporter to Iraq, totaling over two billion dollars per year in exports since 2000. To those who are at a loss to explain why French elected officials seem "helpless" to stem the tide of anti-Semitism, I say that something smells awfully Vichy around here.

You already know that Israel is at war against a fearsome enemy, which has brought the fight to its streets. Much of the civilized world (well, at least on this side of the Atlantic), finally understands this fact.

What is not being acknowledged, however, is that this is not a war against Israel, or as propagandists and demagogues worldwide would have it, occupiers.

This is a war against each and every individual, Israeli or not, religious or not, Zionist or not, right, left or center, who identifies himself or herself as Jewish. Israel is only the publicized front line and if you are not in Israel, and the fight has not arrived at your front yard, just wait. Or, perhaps, we shouldn't wait. Perhaps history has finally taught us, of all people, that waiting and hoping for succor and sympathy from the nations of the world will lead only to more burned synagogues, pogroms, and, down the road, grim-faced dignitaries mouthing "never again" while dedicating yet another memorial museum. We cannot wait inactively and hope to have security or peace for our children or ourselves. We dare not privately rail against irrational, virulent hatred while letting the world believe that we remain disinterested, accepting our lot with equanimity or, worse, resignation. We can and must do more than simply grieve. So I call on you, whether you are a fellow Jew, a friend, or merely a person with the capacity and desire to distinguish decency from depravity, to do, at least, these three simple things:

First, care enough to stay informed. Don't ever let yourself become deluded into thinking that this is not your fight.

Second, boycott France. Only the Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and, unlike them, France exports more than just oil and hatred. So boycott their wines and their perfumes. Boycott their clothes and their foodstuffs. Boycott their movies. Definitely boycott their shores. If we are resolved we can exert amazing pressure and, whatever else we may know about the French, we most certainly know that they are as a cobweb in a hurricane in the face of well directed pressure.

Third, send this along to your family, your friends, and your coworkers. Think of all of the people of good conscience that you know and let them know that you and the people that you care about need their help.

The number one best selling book in France is "September 11: The Frightening Fraud," which argues that no plane ever hit the Pentagon.

Our only strength is the strength of our community and there can be no community without communication.

This is really scary stuff, we cannot allow this to continue. With education we can curb this hideous anti-Semitic wave and squelch it.....before it grows and engulfs us all.


___________________
We don’t thrive on military acts. We do them because we have to, and thank God we are efficient.

Old Post Dec-01-2003 19:32  Israel
Click Here to See the Profile for dj_ilan_yosef Click here to Send dj_ilan_yosef a Private Message Add dj_ilan_yosef to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
imokruok
Lawyers, guns, and money



Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA / Milwaukee, WI

Nice post, dj_ilan_yosef. In case you haven't seen it yet, here's a news story on the EU report, and it includes a link where you can download the whole thing. No one's quite sure how the report got out, but it's there.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...sm_dc&printer=1

Old Post Dec-02-2003 19:43  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for imokruok Click here to Send imokruok a Private Message Add imokruok to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > European Officials Refuse to Release Anti-Semitism Report
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

Pages (2): « 1 [2]  
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbacksasha 1994 love of life track 12... [2004] [0]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackStarsign - "Taurus" [2005]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:18.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!