Since I am going to grad school I know an Auditory specialist. He runs research on audition. I am trying to figure out what physically makes the bass go out. Now this has only happen to me a couple of times, so I might have to ask you guys questions.

but this phenonmenon even happens in your head phones right. Because there is a thing where sound waves reverberate back and sync up to cancel each other. but if it works in your headphones it would not be that.


also could someone record this?

http://pwp.netcabo.pt/0151463301/timeless.mp3

ok not the best example of beats cancelling that I had, but in hard trance I like it actually and I think at some points you can find them pretty evident on this sample
from the theme (dumonde remix) to timeless

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quote:

Originally posted by benoitfan http://pwp.netcabo.pt/0151463301/timeless.mp3 ok not the best example of beats cancelling that I had, but in hard trance I like it actually and I think at some points you can find them pretty evident on this sample from the theme (dumonde remix) to timeless

cool thanks. and is that you turning the bass out at around 1:00?

yeh timeless has a small break where I like to throw the other track's bass in

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gotcha, thanks for the sample. I think we might try to make an experiment out of this phenomenon. maybe even get a publication . depends if we figure it out.

thanks.

well I have more if you like, I even have one in one recorded set of mine(must look for it)where the beats cancel only in the final beat of the measure, for like 4 measures... weird stuff! lol

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Hey Benito,

Nice touch with the bass there in Timeless. When I do that trick I usually use it more like a drum roll but we all have our different styles.


On a technical DJ note, what you may want to try with those to tracks is a quick changeover rather than keep both in at those levels because you have Timeless comming in at an incompatible key. You would get a more uplifting effect on a dancefloor if you just did a complete bass swap. This would work really well as Timeless just goes up one or two notes.

I tell you a mix you should try if you have the record. David Forbes - Sympatico into Timeless. Those records are in the same key and thus you avoid the key class between the two in the sample. I usually start Timeless just as the breakdown on Sympatico finishes. You can leave both running for ages. Try it if you can and tell me what you think.

Cheers
Nem

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Last edited by Nemesis44 on Dec-19-2003 at 02:15

it's all basic physics. Sound is a wave form. when you have two waves sitting over eachother, if the peaks on both waves line up, the result is a bigger wave than either. If the peak on one wave lines up with a trough on the other, you end up with a flat total sound. So if your beatmatching is absolutely dead on the result is a flat bass. A tiny touch will stop this, and normally you'll notice the bass come back by itself in a couple of bars, as beatmatching isn't likely to be that precise. Not sure of the exact numbers, but i think the wavelength of the base is something like 2 milliseconds, so there's not much in it. EQ's can have the same effect, so the two waves are rarely the same size, so cannot cancel eachother out as perfectly

quote:

Originally posted by tubby it's all basic physics. Sound is a wave form. when you have two waves sitting over eachother, if the peaks on both waves line up, the result is a bigger wave than either. If the peak on one wave lines up with a trough on the other, you end up with a flat total sound. So if your beatmatching is absolutely dead on the result is a flat bass. A tiny touch will stop this, and normally you'll notice the bass come back by itself in a couple of bars, as beatmatching isn't likely to be that precise. Not sure of the exact numbers, but i think the wavelength of the base is something like 2 milliseconds, so there's not much in it. EQ's can have the same effect, so the two waves are rarely the same size, so cannot cancel eachother out as perfectly

Exactly,

Hence the reason to EQ well.

Cheers
Nem

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quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Hey Benito, Nice touch with the bass there in Timeless. When I do that trick I usually use it more like a drum roll but we all have our different styles. On a technical DJ note, what you may want to try with those to tracks is a quick changeover rather than keep both in at those levels because you have Timeless comming in at an incompatible key. You would get a more uplifting effect on a dancefloor if you just did a complete bass swap. This would work really well as Timeless just goes up one or two notes. I tell you a mix you should try if you have the record. David Forbes - Sympatico into Timeless. Those records are in the same key and thus you avoid the key class between the two in the sample. I usually start Timeless just as the breakdown on Sympatico finishes. You can leave both running for ages. Try it if you can and tell me what you think. Cheers Nem

thanks for the feedback
I usually use kill switches with timeless because that's just such an energetic track rightaway, but in this particular mix I wanted to mix using this "beat-cancel" stuff which I like in hardtrance (dumonde use it often too). As for that record I don't have (will check it though), but as for harmonic mixing is concerned, I have no musical background, and I confess that I know nothing about key clashes
I think harmonic mixing will be my next step hehe
Cheers!

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quote:

Originally posted by tubby it's all basic physics. Sound is a wave form. when you have two waves sitting over eachother, if the peaks on both waves line up, the result is a bigger wave than either. If the peak on one wave lines up with a trough on the other, you end up with a flat total sound. So if your beatmatching is absolutely dead on the result is a flat bass. A tiny touch will stop this, and normally you'll notice the bass come back by itself in a couple of bars, as beatmatching isn't likely to be that precise. Not sure of the exact numbers, but i think the wavelength of the base is something like 2 milliseconds, so there's not much in it. EQ's can have the same effect, so the two waves are rarely the same size, so cannot cancel eachother out as perfectly

well as I understand it when two waves combine they make one singular strongly represented tone. However in this effect both waves are lost, which I have no idea why it would.

There is the possibility that since both waves amplify the level it could be under continuous clipping. but I have mixed together as the rush comes and time of our lives and got the bass to disappear so I think I will use those and fool around in a auditory laboratory. should be fun, I'll post updates and questions.