quote:

Originally posted by occrider True, we don't really know how corrupt sharon is if at all. But I'm somewhat doubtful that he is formulating Israeli foreign policy on the basis of his personal gain

Sharon is very corrupt.. this is how I was able to get the billion dollar mustard making subsudy from the state. And so long as Sharon gives me this subsudie, I will never say anything bad about him.


In all truth though, one could make an arugment against Sharon, but it would largely have to lie in late history. One could make a similar argument against Arafat, but you have the benifit of recent history against Arafat and only distant history against Sharon.

My point is, one can be against Sharon the man, but Sharon the primeminster is a much harder point to argue against --- he is doing his role as Primeminster and doing what he believes is right for the Israeli people, and the Israeli people support

___________________
SAVE ZIONIST MUSTARD: BUY ZIONIST KETCHUP!


Click here to support the free mustard alliance.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus My point is, one can be against Sharon the man, but Sharon the primeminster is a much harder point to argue against --- he is doing his role as Primeminster and doing what he believes is right for the Israeli people, and the Israeli people support

This kind of reasoning (and occrider's at that) seems to be a dangerous path to tread. There was this european mustache-guy some fifty years ago, who did an awful lot of awful things - all for the good of *his* people...

razmataz: I actually agree with your observation. Only I think it is more general than that: We also see pro-Palestine denouncing suicide bombings, but some of the pro-Israel group defends raids on palestineans and the security *fence*.
I am, however, not sure whether the reason is more mature people on the pro-Palestine front. I would rather think that the reason is that there are so many more people on the pro-Israel front than on the pro-Palestine front, that the odds of having fundamentalistic hotheads among them are greater.

in all the forums Im debating this topic po-Palestinians never show any sign of self-criticism. pro-Israelis /jews constantly have to back down and defend, instead of making points themselves. Your observation is als wrong if you look at both Israeli and Arab media. Talk about free press Just go to www.haartz.com on a daily basis and you'll see which side is more honest with itself.

___________________
"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic This kind of reasoning (and occrider's at that) seems to be a dangerous path to tread. There was this european mustache-guy some fifty years ago, who did an awful lot of awful things - all for the good of *his* people...

Yes perhaps it would be a dangerous path to tread IF I hadn't stated that I disliked both Sharon and Arafat. Furthermore I provided no justification or support for the methods Sharon has used. I merely pegged Arafat as being lower on the totem poll than Sharon since his primary concern is himself rather than his people ... therefore your argument is not applicable

You're getting dangerously close to godwin

___________________
Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by occrider You're getting dangerously close to godwin

Argh. I knew I should have used a different example - something like Mugabe or the Sharia-advocates around the world.
(Btw. how would your totem-philosophy apply to Sharia-advocates or Mugabe? I guess they believe they seek the better for the people, but they seem to benefit the most themselves?)


However, although I may have stretched my welcome by including you in the parenthesis, I still maintain that my argument is valid for countering those of DJ-Kreing^^ and Yoepus.

A little update...

quote:

Israel is ready to take unilateral action to separate itself from the Palestinian areas, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has said. These would include the dismantling of settler outposts and the accelerated building of the controversial security barrier in the West Bank. In his speech, Mr Sharon said such steps would be taken unless a peace deal was reached soon. Mr Sharon also strongly criticised unofficial peace plans. "The roadmap is the only plan that has been accepted by the Israelis, Palestinians... and the rest of the world," he said of the US-backed plan SETTLEMENTS FACTS 220,000 settlers in the West Bank and Gaza 130 settlements authorised by Israeli Governments Approximately 100 un-authorised settlements, 60 built during Ariel Sharon's government Israel spends about $500m on settlements annually - excluding security Sources: Peace Now and Haaretz newspaper Maps: West Bank settlements Other plans "mislead the public and encourage false hopes," he said. He said Israel was not interested in ruling the Palestinians, and urged them to "abandon the path of terrorism". But, he warned, "if within a few months the Palestinians have not made reciprocal steps we will take unilateral action". Mr Sharon has recently spoken of unspecified "unilateral steps" in the West Bank in the event of the roadmap peace process failing. Such talk has made both the Palestinians and the Americans nervous, the BBC's Barbara Plett reports from Jerusalem, as they fear Mr Sharon is suggesting there may come a time when he will give up on a negotiated settlement and impose his own.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/3332361.stm

___________________
aka Tits McGee
aka Chesty LaRue
aka Busty St. Claire

Before you go on, yes I realize the thread had no actual debate of a *news article* in it, but I figured I might as well post up the "breaking news" rather than beginning another wasted thread.

quote:

Maybe because of an anonymous forum some TAs are younger than we may think and are thus clouded by jinguistic emotions and naeivity.

Or perhaps we are surrounded by people that cannot admit that their views were incorrect, so they tend to switch the topic as quickly as possible to defending themselves, thus immediately taking away any sort of quality in their thoughtless posts.

___________________
aka Tits McGee
aka Chesty LaRue
aka Busty St. Claire

Last edited by squirrelly on Dec-18-2003 at 22:03