quote:

Originally posted by occrider It's never brought up in conversation ... plus I'm slooowwwllyyy converting Where have you been? Hiding from the religious inquisitions?

Well us heathens still enjoy a good vacation this time of year! Plus we get all these cool presents under a freshly cut pine tree!

Yippie!!!

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quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Well us heathens still enjoy a good vacation this time of year! Plus we get all these cool presents under a freshly cut pine tree! Yippie!!!

Oh that's right ... I keep forgetting that you commie socialists get a month of vacation

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Retro ...

My problem is when religions take their sacred writings literally, an example being creationism. In my opinion religions are nothing more than philosphies with rituals and a strong study of their own history. Therefore, the most important thing a religion can give someone is its underlying philosophical message, not a step by step guide to "salvation." I'm catholic, but I consider relgion to be a philosophy I live by, not a set of instructions. I don't believe in creationism, hell even if half the stuff in the bible didn't happen, I wouldn't care. It's about the overall message it's trying to show. I don't see any difference between someone practicing a religion in this way and someone who reads Nietzsche or Confucious or any other philosopher and tries to live their life in that way. At least I don't think there should be any difference.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono My problem is when religions take their sacred writings literally, an example being creationism.

That is the whole sad, sorry gist of most religions out there, especially those three that we see in the West. Well God said this so it must be right, Hello! anyone ever heard of thinking for yourself. If I had a dollar for everytime that religion was used to prove a point I would be the envy of Bill Gates. Naturally there is no point in arguing with a deeply religous person because you will not get very far, I've tried it and boy was I sorry. Every answer to every question I pose began with God, enough said

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quote:

Naturally there is no point in arguing with a deeply religous person because you will not get very far, I've tried it and boy was I sorry. Every answer to every question I pose began with God, enough said

Yeah, it's very hard having any kind of logical debate with a deeply religious person when every rebuttal begins with "well, the bible says..." I just find it hard to believe that something written 2000 years ago and that has gone through countless translations and politics could ever be taken literally. These people need to look past the words and see what the message is behind them. My take on the bible, as a catholic, is that I should try my best to love everyone for who they are, and to do my part to help anyone I can. If they want to be a different religion (or none at all), it is not my job to go bible beating. I figure if I lead a good enough example and they want to join in, so be it...if not, I really don't care...what religion you are isn't important. If heaven exists, I think the only prerequisite for admittance is to be a good person, regardless of religion or any other persuasion.

/end philosophical rant

everyone from this thread should watch dogma if they haven't already. i know this sounds dumb, but my take on religion comes from it.

i think it's better to have ideas than beliefs. ideas can change with time, and can adapt to how you mature. beliefs are rock solid. if you died today...and everything you believed in spiritually...every single thing you thought you were living for was wrong...i think that'd be one of the most sad things in the world. but if you just have ideas of what you think is out there, you don't fight anyone about it, you don't offend anyone trying to convert them into your way of thinking, you just go on living a happy life.

i think the reason why evangelism is so prominent is that people who are insecure in their own faith will be gratified and reassured when others can share their way of thinking.

my beef with religion, and i know this has already been brought up, is that MOST zealously religious people aren't able to openly discuss their beliefs...they often get offended, angry, or just close off altogether. you sit down with any athiest/agnostic/unsure person in the world (from my encounters) and they'll talk to you about their reasoning behind their 'ideas', if you will.

i think that if you've been raised to think a certain way, as most uber-religious people have been, testing the boundaries of that faith feels to them like they're betraying not only their religion, but probably the people who brought them into that religion as well.

so yeah...have ideas guys.

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quote:

philippe - In MEXICO says: ur the most clever pothead i know philippe - In MEXICO says: u deserve a fucking medal

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono Yeah, it's very hard having any kind of logical debate with a deeply religious person when every rebuttal begins with "well, the bible says..." I just find it hard to believe that something written 2000 years ago and that has gone through countless translations and politics could ever be taken literally. These people need to look past the words and see what the message is behind them. My take on the bible, as a catholic, is that I should try my best to love everyone for who they are, and to do my part to help anyone I can. If they want to be a different religion (or none at all), it is not my job to go bible beating. I figure if I lead a good enough example and they want to join in, so be it...if not, I really don't care...what religion you are isn't important. If heaven exists, I think the only prerequisite for admittance is to be a good person, regardless of religion or any other persuasion. /end philosophical rant

Well said.

As a Methodist-raised kid, you Catholics missed out in the "children's time", where all the kids would be called up front to be read in layman's terms different selected passages. Sometimes we would even sing songs during this time.

Oh the joy of church childhood.

"Kumbayah, my lord, Kumbayah!!!"

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

religion is a wonderful thing, and in my mind, all faiths at their very core are essentially the same, in that they are a personal search for the truth.

however, in answer to dopey's q, i don't find fault in the ethos of religions themselves per se, but rather in humans clinging obstinately to DOGMA

EDIT: yeah kinda what prolikewhoa said

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeJulez religion is a wonderful thing, and in my mind, all faiths at their very core are essentially the same, in that they are a personal search for the truth.

I'd have to disagree in that they're not really a personal search for the truth, but rather a cheap substitute for it. I don't really know how or why this works or what's really out there or what's going to happen to me or why it will happen, so I'll just attribute it all to a higher power who, even though we can't see or hear or smell or touch him, miraculously exhibits many human traits because he made us to be like a crappy carbon copy of himself.

Not that there's anything wrong with believing in God, it's just that over the course of history, God has been used primarily as a vehicle to explain phenomena that we've actually been able to model and explain scientifically in more recent days.

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I'd have to disagree in that they're not really a personal search for the truth, but rather a cheap substitute for it. I don't really know how or why this works or what's really out there or what's going to happen to me or why it will happen, so I'll just attribute it all to a higher power who, even though we can't see or hear or smell or touch him, miraculously exhibits many human traits because he made us to be like a crappy carbon copy of himself. Not that there's anything wrong with believing in God, it's just that over the course of history, God has been used primarily as a vehicle to explain phenomena that we've actually been able to model and explain scientifically in more recent days.

Well said, that's exactly how I view it as well. Until someone presents me with evidence for the existance of a higher being, as dictated in one of the major monotheistic religions, i'm not going to convert.

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quote:

I'd have to disagree in that they're not really a personal search for the truth, but rather a cheap substitute for it.

For some people, that is the case, but for many it isn't. It really depends on what you hope to get out of a religion. Some people do use it to explain the unexplained and to give them "insight" into things we don't understand (afterlife, etc.). Some people, myself included, use relgion as a philosophy...a way to live life by, not a way to explain it. Religions due tend to surround themselves with tradition and dogma, but if these do not cloud the underlying message, there is no problem with them. If religion is used primarily as a philosophy, I see no problem with it.