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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Wesley Clark --D'OH!
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imokruok
Lawyers, guns, and money



Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA / Milwaukee, WI

Just for future reference once the Democrats have a nominee: Not only does that person get full Secret Service protection, but they are also given classified national security briefings and information to keep them up to date during the campaign. The US affords the opposing major party candidate some of the same benefits that he would have as an incumbent.


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Old Post Jan-16-2004 01:03  United States
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smokeape
Lowland Trance Addict



Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Heart of Dixie

Wesley Clark has been nothing more than a four-star idiot since he retired - and maybe before!

{{{smoke}}}

Old Post Jan-16-2004 02:08 
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squirrelly
The Phun Nun



Registered: Oct 2003
Location: In the Shower

quote:
Originally posted by Vesa
I believe that Clark still has significant intelligence and military contacts. Those may even be the very reason why he decided to run for President so quickly (wasn't that telling) and as a Democrat. He seemed to have very little experience about politics and no realistic chance of being elected, so the only goal of his campaign may be to help in sabotaging Bush, a common goal of both Democrats and some GOP veterans.


quote:
General Clark, who repeatedly refers to himself as "a leader, not a politician," said of the critical flier, "I guess that's what professional politicians do."


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/08/p...gns/08DEAN.html

And, on who he voted for:

quote:
Clark also dismissed critics' questioning of his Democratic credentials. He said he voted for Al Gore and Bill Clinton in presidential elections, and he defended his earlier votes for Ronald Reagan by saying he "voted for people who were strong on national security."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2004Jan14.html

Keep in mind, when Clark registered to vote, it was quite a long time ago, and placing you party as "None party affiliated" was not as popular, if even in effect, back in the day. Is it not our right as citizens of America to vote for whom we believe to be a good President, regardless of what our voter registration card says?

Another note- I've said plenty of times that I'm against something but give kudos to people who are brave enough to do it.

This is one of the first things to go against Clark. How many are there on Dean? Gephardt? Kerry? They can't even speak for themselves, representatives do. It's now official that Dean will not be holding any more confrences with the public:

quote:
While Dr. Dean continues to draw impressive crowds at nearly every stop, he has also begun to face daily questions from voters about some of his recent statements and his vulnerability to President Bush.


quote:
Then there is the new clamp on Dr. Dean's mouth. On Saturday morning, Doug Thornell, his traveling press secretary, announced that the candidate would less frequently face groups of reporters, or chat freely in transit, but instead would field questions, one-on one, by request. Three days passed without the kind of group interview with national reporters that used to be frequent, and the promised one-on-ones never happened (until Wednesday morning, when a
Washington Post reporter was allowed to ask a question after a pancake breakfast in Muscatine about civil unions). Dr. Dean has met individually with local television and radio reporters, but he has not had a group meeting with local reporters, once a regular occurrence, since Dec. 16 in New Mexico.


quote:
He said, "There's been more than one time when I've said something, and sort of the middle of what I've said is not said but thought, and therefore assumed to be understood, which is a ridiculous assumption on my part, but sometimes gets me in trouble."


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/08/p...gns/08DEAN.html


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Old Post Jan-16-2004 02:23  Poland
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rupert
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2001
Location: bris vegas

quote:
And Congress authorized it. The U.S. isn't a dictatorship, though many on this board like to compare it to one.


No it isnt but then it doesnt need to be. What really amazes me is how the USA gives its citizens through the legal system and the constitution rights that people anywhere else would fall over themselves to get such as the first amendment, the fifth amendment, freedom of information laws, many excellent pieces of legislation such as the Alien Torts Act but you still have autocratic secretive government, a compliant judiciary. The ruling class in america dont need a dictatorship to have control.

The US media seldoms questions authority, trivialises issues or is straight outed biased like Fox News. The standard of US journalism is appalling, and dont flame me because I dont live in america, I get Fox News, CNBC and CNN. I am watching Fox News right now and there is some idiot from a think tank ridiculing Global warming. No I am not making this up. Insanity. Now the host of this show Mr Cavuto is ridiculing a conservation spokesperson saying their is no proof about global warming. But I digress.

In any other country George W and his gang would have been railroaded out of office for stupidity if not for all of the bold out and out lies they have told. And the most amazing thing is that Dubya will win in 2004.

The vested interests in america the lobby groups for big business, the military, guns, Israel own the government they dont need to control it.

Right now Mr Cavuto is talking about how much money the democratic candidates are raising Mr Dean is leading the way in case you were interested. They always talk about how much money they raise. The talking head just said that if Dick Gephardt doesnt get Union money he will have to pull out of Iowa. Which demonstrates my point exactly US politics is all about money, that is the only thing its about. And all the big money is given by the vested interests. It is crazy to think that they dont get their pound of flesh when there lad get into that Millionares club called Congress. Why not be clever and give contributions to both sides.

And the talking head on Fox News had to throw in a sledge against Hillary Clinton. I have noticed they really hate her a lot, followed slightly by Howard Dean and then the French.

I am perhaps venting against Fox News but I for one am glad that loathsome right wing fanatic, hatefilled, greedy scumbag Rupert Murdoch abandoned his Australian citizenship to become an american. All of those adjectives enable him to meet the selection criteria for the perfect CEO, a born to rule ivy league parasite.

The USA has two parties of big business, one that is prepared to make minor compromises with the Hoi Polloi and another that isnt. Some choice. The corporations know that whomever gets in office will have their best interests at heart. All US politicians know the golden rule. He who has the gold rules. I have had enough of Fox News for one night, I think I will change the channel for more quality american broadcasting this time Worlds Wildest Police Videos.

Old Post Jan-16-2004 10:35  Australia
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Dopey
Palestinian Pornstar



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Ramallah

wasn't Clark told about the invasion plans right after 9/11? i think thats the case, and if it is then his opinion on whether or not the war should happen didnt really matter since he was told it WAS going to happen.

Old Post Jan-16-2004 13:57  Palestine
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by rupert
What really amazes me is how the USA gives its citizens through the legal system and the constitution rights that people anywhere else would fall over themselves to get such as the first amendment, the fifth amendment...


Part of what makes America beautiful!

quote:
I am watching Fox News right now and there is some idiot from a think tank ridiculing Global warming. No I am not making this up. Insanity.


I think Global warming is overhyped by many as a doomsday tool. There is plenty of scientific evidence that has shown that the sun has actually grown hotter in recent years. Hotter sun = hotter Earth, duh. I'm all for conservation and moderation, but let's not hit the panic button and call an alternative opinion idiotic just because it goes against your personal beliefs which are based on speculative science at best.

quote:

And the talking head on Fox News had to throw in a sledge against Hillary Clinton.


I wasn't aware that anyone liked Hillary!

quote:
I am perhaps venting against Fox News but I for one am glad that loathsome right wing fanatic, hatefilled, greedy scumbag Rupert Murdoch abandoned his Australian citizenship to become an american. All of those adjectives enable him to meet the selection criteria for the perfect CEO, a born to rule ivy league parasite.


It sounded more like a rant on Fox--you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Old Post Jan-16-2004 15:04  United States
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DaveSZ
When The Levee Breaks



Registered: Jan 2003
Location: ATX

I was a bit fazed by Drudge’s article, but then I remembered that Matt is good "friends" with Sean Hannity and the boys, if you get my drift.

I just finished reading more of the full transcript that Drudge has cut and pasted small pieces out of to make Clark look bad:

http://cat-m.forclark.com/story/2004/1/15/11369/7727

And I realize that Clark was actually calling for more diplomacy, and not a rush to war. In fact my support for Clark is stronger now thanks to you Shakka. Thank you.


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Old Post Jan-16-2004 15:12 
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by DaveSaenz
I was a bit fazed by Drudge’s article, but then I remembered that Matt is good "friends" with Sean Hannity and the boys, if you get my drift.

I just finished reading more of the full transcript that Drudge has cut and pasted small pieces out of to make Clark look bad:

http://cat-m.forclark.com/story/2004/1/15/11369/7727

And I realize that Clark was actually calling for more diplomacy, and not a rush to war. In fact my support for Clark is stronger now thanks to you Shakka. Thank you.


That's a good find. Goes quite nicely with the article I posted in the other Clark thread about Republican attacks on Clark

Old Post Jan-16-2004 15:40  United States
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by DaveSaenz
I was a bit fazed by Drudge’s article, but then I remembered that Matt is good "friends" with Sean Hannity and the boys, if you get my drift.

I just finished reading more of the full transcript that Drudge has cut and pasted small pieces out of to make Clark look bad:

http://cat-m.forclark.com/story/2004/1/15/11369/7727

And I realize that Clark was actually calling for more diplomacy, and not a rush to war. In fact my support for Clark is stronger now thanks to you Shakka. Thank you.


I'm all for individuality and freedom of thought. I'm glad you're voting how you want to vote, that's how it should be.

Old Post Jan-16-2004 15:52  United States
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DaveSZ
When The Levee Breaks



Registered: Jan 2003
Location: ATX

Drudge fabricated some lines of transcript...?


http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/7720784.htm

quote:


GOP chair claims Clark supported war; transcripts show otherwise
By Dana Hull and Drew Brown
Knight Ridder Newspapers


RICH GLICKSTEIN, The State

Democratic presidental hopeful Gen. Wesley Clark (U.S. Army, Ret.) talks with students at Dillon High School in Dillon, South Carolina.



MANCHESTER, N.H. - Ed Gillespie, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, charged Thursday that retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark endorsed President Bush's policy toward Iraq two weeks before Congress voted to authorize Bush to go to war.


If true, that would contradict the core message of Clark's presidential campaign. The complete transcript of Clark's Sept. 26, 2002, testimony, however, reveals that Clark didn't endorse Bush's policy during the congressional hearing, and that the Republican charge is based on selected excerpts of his remarks.


Gillespie accurately quoted portions of Clark's testimony before the House Armed Services Committee in which Clark said he believed that Saddam Hussein possessed chemical and biological weapons and was seeking nuclear weapons. But the RNC chairman didn't mention that Clark also said America should work through the United Nations to seek a diplomatic solution and go to war only as a last resort.


Gillespie's speech, delivered in Clark's hometown of Little Rock, Ark., argued forcefully that Clark had endorsed Bush's policy toward Iraq in that congressional testimony and at other times. Gillespie apparently was contesting Clark's insistence that he consistently opposed Bush's war against Iraq - a stand Clark reiterated Thursday. "There was no stronger case made than that expert testimony, the testimony of General Wesley Clark," Gillespie concluded.


Clark's position on the Iraq war is central to his presidential candidacy, for as a former four-star general, he bases his appeal to Democrats on his credibility as a military man who can challenge Bush on national security issues.


"This is material that has been dug up by the RNC," Clark responded Thursday afternoon. "Ed Gillespie should have read the whole testimony, because it totally refutes the Bush position."


Clark appeared exasperated.


"What I was saying then is what I'm saying today. That Saddam Hussein was not an imminent threat. That actions contemplated against Saddam Hussein did not constitute pre-emptive war, contrary to what the Bush administration was saying, because there was no imminent threat. Was he troublesome? Sure. Was he a threat? Eventually, sure. Was the clock ticking in the two-year, five-year, eight-year time period? Sure. Did we have to do this? NO."


Clark, however, hasn't always been consistent. The day after he officially announced his candidacy for president last September, he told reporters that he "probably" would have voted the previous autumn for the congressional resolution authorizing Bush to go to war, then reversed that position the next day.




The attack on Clark by the RNC chairman suggests that the Republican Party is now taking Clark's campaign seriously. Although opinion polls can be unreliable in primaries, in which voter turnout is low and many voters make up their minds at the last minute, the latest polls show Clark closing in on former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean for the lead in New Hampshire, where Democrats will vote on Jan. 27.


Clark's congressional testimony was further distorted Thursday by cyber-gossip columnist Matt Drudge, who quoted selected portions of Clark's testimony and added sentences that don't appear in the transcript on his Web site Thursday. Drudge didn't respond to an e-mail request for comment.


For example, Drudge quoted Clark on possible links between al-Qaida and Saddam Hussein's regime. "I think there's no question that, even though we may not have the evidence as (fellow witness) Richard (Perle) says, that there have been such contacts," Clark testified. "It's normal. It's natural. These are a lot of bad actors in the same region together. They are going to bump into each other. They are going to exchange information."


But Drudge didn't include Clark's comment that: "As far as I know, I haven't seen any substantial evidence linking Saddam's regime to the al-Qaida network, though such evidence may emerge. I'm saying there hasn't been any substantiation of the linkage of the Iraqi regime to the events of 9/11 or the fact that they are giving weapons of mass destruction capability to al-Qaida."


"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat," Clark testified, according to the full transcript, which was reviewed by Knight Ridder. "He does retain his chemical and biological capabilities to some extent and he is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we … The problem of Iraq is not a problem that can be postponed indefinitely … ."


In addition, Clark said: "If the efforts to resolve the problem by using the United Nations fail, either initially or ultimately, then we need to form the broadest possible coalition, including our NATO allies and the North Atlantic Council if we're going to bring forces to bear. We should not be using force until the personnel, the organizations, the plans that will be required for post-conflict Iraq are prepared and ready."


---


(Hull, of the San Jose Mercury News, reported from New Hampshire, Brown from Washington.)



If you want to be misled by people like Drudge, then by all means that's your right. The truth however, is more powerful than any lie.


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Old Post Jan-16-2004 21:27 
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by DaveSaenz
Drudge fabricated some lines of transcript...?


http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/7720784.htm




If you want to be misled by people like Drudge, then by all means that's your right. The truth however, is more powerful than any lie.



I hardly see how that article changes anything. I read the Drudge report and it was more of a quick flash story--a summary if you will, with bullet points. The article doesn't change anything.

quote:
Gillespie accurately quoted portions of Clark's testimony before the House Armed Services Committee in which Clark said he believed that Saddam Hussein possessed chemical and biological weapons and was seeking nuclear weapons. But the RNC chairman didn't mention that Clark also said America should work through the United Nations to seek a diplomatic solution and go to war only as a last resort.


THEY DID! We all watched it on TV for half a year! It was only when France said they would veto any new resolution, no matter what it's content, thus forcing the U.S. hand in the big game. Who knows, maybe France wanted to force the U.S. to attack Iraq for their own selfish reasons? Regardless, it was abundantly clear that dealings with the UN were going nowhere fast.

The rest of the supposed "forgotten lines" don't do anything to change the case either. Sounds like Clark is trying to gently back away from this one and sweep it under the rug.

The article doesn't say Drudge fabricated anything. At the most it says they didn't quote every line of text from the Clark testimony, which may or may not have influenced your opinion of the article. Drudge wasn't misquoting anyone.

Old Post Jan-16-2004 23:56  United States
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jonSun
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Chicago CTA #77

Clark has a personal idenity problem. He's the biggest hypocrit of this election.


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Old Post Jan-19-2004 11:56  United States
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Wesley Clark --D'OH!
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