quote:

Originally posted by LouisLaBelle

Your argument can actually be summarized as the following:

"I don't understand the principles of modern science, therefore nobody understands them, therefore they aren't true, therefore whatever crap theory I come up with must be true. You're all just a bunch of bullies!"

You can see how each comma leads to another logical misstep. I think you missed the point of this thread, so maybe you should just quit while you're ahead (or at least not too far behind).

Occrider, these links are great. I'm still reading through them, some of these I've never seen before. Logical fallacies are something everybody should be taught in high school - for the life of me I can't understand why they're not, I think they used to be.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

The ignorance in this country still amazes me.

Here's my basic contention with the teaching of "creationsism" in science classrooms. Science is the study of emperical data resultant from repeatable, observable phenomenon. Faith (or philosophy), is exactly the opposite: personal belief based on non-emperical data from non-repeatable or non-existant sources. Creationism falls into the latter category, as there is no way to oberserve or recreate the events of "creation." We aren't able to witness a human spring forth from dirt, nor the spontaneous generation of a living thing from nothing, as a creationist would want us to believe. Evolution however, is observable and repeatable. From Finch studies on the Galapagos islands to antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria, we have countless real-world examples of evolution at work.

My undergrad degree is in evolutionary biology, and I'll tell you, it makes me sick to my stomach to see how people are able to blind themselves to years of scientific data in order to pursue their own agenda and philosophy. If you want to teach creationism fine, but teach it in English class as a philosophy, not a science, as it couldn't be farther from it.

A Southern State that is teaching creationism as a science over evolution, no. Amazed that they haven't stop teaching evolution as yet in Georgia, they'll get there eventually though. Don't we all know that God created man out of a rib bone as taught by the good book. Sheesh people quit questioning creationism it makes good sense, its the word of God

___________________
Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Your argument can actually be summarized as the following: "I don't understand the principles of modern science, therefore nobody understands them, therefore they aren't true, therefore whatever crap theory I come up with must be true. You're all just a bunch of bullies!" You can see how each comma leads to another logical misstep. I think you missed the point of this thread, so maybe you should just quit while you're ahead (or at least not too far behind).

IOW, Argument from Ignorance, or Argument from Personal Astonishment:

http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~lindsay...tonishment.html
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/ignorant.html

I've run across a number of websites, but I honestly think Talkorigins is by far the best place to start. Here's a few to add off the top of my head:

Talkorigins Links

Creationism

More Evolution Links

Noah's Ark: A sinking ship

Precambrian to Cambrian

Phylum Level Evolution

Dr. Bruce Grant confirms Peppered Moths

All Mutations Harmful? Meet the Nylon Bug

Intelligent Design? Here's some of God's Greatest Mistakes

Oh geez, I just found this gem:

Dr. Dino Iraq Creation Ministry

I should mention, however, that the best information I've ever received has come from a number of internet forums. Here's a few:

Infidels

Yahoo Groups: Evo vs. ID

Creation/Evolution Debate
(my current favorite)

It is important, however, to know and understand the other side of the debate. The best way to debate is to fully understand the other opponent's arguments ("know thy enemy"). So here's a few Creationist websites that anyone interested should go to:

The One and Only Kent Hovind (aka Dr. Dino)

Phillip Johnson's Discovery Institute

Creationism (Mostly Young Earth)

Dembski's Design Inference

Institute for Creation Research

Rebuttal of Talk Origin

ISCID Website (created by Dembski)

This last one is an interesting website IMO. It's basically a place where IDers post their papers that entertain the idea of ID (Intelligent Design). It's funny to me because they know damn well that they can't post these papers in any peer-reviewed science journal, so this is their escape route. What's more interesting is their forum: Brainstorms. Each time they post their theories they get thoroughly ripped apart by Evolutionists each time. What's obvious is the fact that they have some interesting hypothesis (including Dembski), but they can never seem to get past that first step and go further into conducting testable experiments or observations. Hell, they can't even propose a mechanism behind their hypothesis. And therein lies the rub for IDer's: they can't get past the hypothesis stage.

So what do they do as an alternative? They change the playing field. Since they cannot be scrutinized with Methodological Naturalism like every other science, they want to invent their own. Neat, huh?

I understand why a number of posters outside the U.S. are perplexed by this Evolution/Creationism debate. There honestly wouldn't be much of a debate outside the realms of science and religious philosophers, had it not penetrated the walls of high school education. Unfortunately, it has done just that with a number of State BOE over the years. Sadly, this includes my own state (Kansas) a number of years ago, thanks to a couple of Fundies on our State BOE and the influence of Phillip Johnson. Thankfully we had a couple of them thrown out of the BOE through elections and the Moderates overturned the ruling for Creationism being taught. This has also occurred in Georgia, Ohio, Arkansas, amongst others. Religious fundamentalism has quite a firm grip on this country, and this extremism has unfortunately done it's damage in the classroom.

I've said it before, religion has absolutely no place in the schools. It especially has no place in the science classroom. If creationism is to be taught anywhere outside of a church, perhaps a philosophy class is most suitable. Trouble is, it can't even stand the scrutiny in there with it's given logical fallacies, but this is where it should remain. Until Creationism comes up with positive, testable, and falsifiable model that can predict future obervations and tests, it does not belong in the same planet as science.

Damnit Occ, why'd you have to push my buttons?

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

That guy with a monkey face and a cowboy hat is destroying your country. Better kill him before he finishes it off.

www.bushorchimp.com

quote:

Originally posted by borron That guy with a monkey face and a cowboy hat is destroying your country. Better kill him before he finishes it off. www.bushorchimp.com

Well in all honesty, it really has nothing to do with bush. State legislatures determine the education programs, not the federal government.

___________________
Retro ...

Now I'm getting downright fucking pissed off!!!:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/0...n.ap/index.html

What the fuck is wrong with these stupid fucking people?

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Now I'm getting downright fucking pissed off!!!: http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/0...n.ap/index.html What the fuck is wrong with these stupid fucking people?

Georgia has yet to evolve?

___________________
Retro ...

Let me further add a part of that piece that really gets me up in arms:

quote:

Cox repeatedly referred to evolution as a "buzzword" Thursday and said the ban was proposed, in part, to alleviate pressure on teachers in socially conservative areas where parents object to its teaching. "If teachers across this state, parents across this state say, 'This is not what we want,' then we'll change it," said Cox, a Republican elected in 2002.

Why do religious parents have a say in what is a scientific fact or not?

Un-fucking-believable.

To their credit, I appreciate this last part from the Social Conservatives:

quote:

Social conservatives who prefer religious creation to be taught instead of evolution criticized the proposal as well. "If you're teaching the concept without the word, what's the point?" said Rep. Bobby Franklin, a Republican. "It's stupid. It's like teaching gravity without using the word gravity."

Now I really need a fucking beer.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Ladies and gentlemen ... I give you the Georgia student of tomorrow!


What the Georgia BOE envisions:





Reality:


"The doctor said that I wouldn't have so many nose bleeds if I kept my finger out of there!"

___________________
Retro ...

And perhaps the georgian of today

___________________
Retro ...

Ahaha.

Drug Tito was right. We should have let the South have their own little country to wallow in their own misery. As for me, I'm leaving as soon as I can.


Seriously though, the religious extremists (who are a small minority) have used ingenious tactics in order to gain as much power as they have from the local to the National level. I must give them credit where it's due.

___________________
http://www.discoboomer.com/forums/