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Originally posted by George Smiley Maybe Israel should just give the Palestinians their country back?

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Originally posted by rizen maybe kidnapping every israeli would do the trick

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Originally posted by Yoepus hey it sounds better than killing every Israeli, they might want to give it a shot.

I'm sorry, but those serious of quotes just made me chuckle.

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quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Maybe Israel should just give the Palestinians their country back?

'giving it back' means that they had it in the first place, can you tell me when palestine was an independent country? hopefully one day in the future.

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quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley ... Well maybe you could have the decency to explain those comments in relation to my view that Israel should give the Palestinians their country back, that will help towards resolving the MEPP...

Georgey, Georgey, Georgey... you cleary have no clue what you are talking about. Even the die-hard Palestinian supporters know this in their hearts of hearts.

I believe you are a good person, with a good open mind.
So you should entertain your open mind, go read a scholarly book about the subject that contrasts with your point of view, see how it stands up to your arguments, who knows maybe you'll just learn a few things..

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DigNut...is that you strategy to "win arguments"? Once you see something you cannot for the life of you argue against, you order the poster that they may only write on the topic of the original post? Sorry, but this is how conversations work. Somebody says something, then somebody else adds something. Same with threads. You cannot tell me what to write, and you have no right doing so! You are not obligied to address any of my points, so if you consider them off topic - ignore them!!

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izzy: "'giving it back' means that they had it in the first place, can you tell me when palestine was an independent country?"

Not sure I should be answering that as it is slightly off topic! But anyway, I am refering to the original UN resolution in 1949 that divided Palestine into a Jewish and Arab state. Then the resolution of 1967 that did similar. According to international law, there should be a separate state, but no, there was no Palestine under control of Palestinians.

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yoepus: "I believe you are a good person, with a good open mind. So you should entertain your open mind, go read a scholarly book about the subject that contrasts with your point of view, see how it stands up to your arguments, who knows maybe you'll just learn a few things.."

Thank you I hope I am a good person! I also wrote my dissertation (14,000 words) on Israel-Palestine, so I dont think I need to read a scholary book and contrast it with my views, as my views have come from my research (using your scholary books funnily enough!)

What? You assumed that cos I was from England I would know nothing about the subject?!

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Originally posted by George Smiley Not sure I should be answering that as it is slightly off topic! But anyway, I am refering to the original UN resolution in 1949 that divided Palestine into a Jewish and Arab state. Then the resolution of 1967 that did similar. According to international law, there should be a separate state, but no, there was no Palestine under control of Palestinians.

Heh, yes, except that the arab part was mostly under the control of Egypt. So it wasn't really a state as much as it was a territory.

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Originally posted by George Smiley Thank you I hope I am a good person! I also wrote my dissertation (14,000 words) on Israel-Palestine, so I dont think I need to read a scholary book and contrast it with my views, as my views have come from my research (using your scholary books funnily enough!) What? You assumed that cos I was from England I would know nothing about the subject?!

No I assumed that since you said the following...

quote:

Not sure I should be answering that as it is slightly off topic! But anyway, I am refering to the original UN resolution in 1949 that divided Palestine into a Jewish and Arab state. Then the resolution of 1967 that did similar. According to international law, there should be a separate state, but no, there was no Palestine under control of Palestinians.

... That you didn't know anything about the subject. Now I am just wondering how someone can go write a 14,000 word dissertation without actually learning some basic facts about the topic of dissertation.

I guess this fact might be a contributing reason to Europe's declining level of higher education ( http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=157025 )

What laws are you refering to exactly when you say "the resolution of 1967 did similar"?


Gregorey, also out of scholarly curiosity, and since I do enjoy reading works that are contrasted against my own opnion regardless of how much I think I know, is there anyway I could read your dissertation?
thanks

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quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Not sure I should be answering that as it is slightly off topic! But anyway, I am refering to the original UN resolution in 1949 that divided Palestine into a Jewish and Arab state. Then the resolution of 1967 that did similar. According to international law, there should be a separate state, but no, there was no Palestine under control of Palestinians.

i have no problem going 'slightly' off topic.

you're right about the partition plan. an independent palestinian state was offered but the plan was rejected, hence forth in no time was there a soverign palestinian country, vis-a-vis, no county to give back

i might also add that the representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the UN submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was a part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politcally, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity."

but im sure the resolution you are refering to at the year 1967 is resolution 242. well i've read it before and it mentions nothing of an independent palestinian country, have a look for yourself:

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00p40

nowhere does it mention that the palestinians be given any political rights or territory. they are only allued to in the second clause of the second article which calls for "a just settlement of the refugee problem."
not only does it not say anything about the creation of a new soveirgn state the PLO rejected the resolution to begin with. In a statement to the general assembly on Oct 15, 1968, the PLO said "the implementation of the said resolution will lead to loss of every hope for the establishment of peace and security in Palestine and the Middle East region".

agian at camp david, a 30 or so years later, the palestinians were offered full independance and soverignty once more, arafat rejected barak's offer...

are you noticing a pattern here?

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When I was refering to "law" and the "resolutions" I was talking about how they have divided the area of Palestine into Jewish and Arab territories. (Ie, when everyone says '67 borders etc)

Yea of course you can read my dissertation! The topic was 'who out of the US and the EU is best placed to help the MEPP'. But the first half covers the basic topics between Israel/Palestine (ie. what the problem is, and what the answer is) Then the second half says who out of EU/US can do the most to help, and what barriers they both face.

If you can send me a PM, send me ur email address and Ill email it to ya

Izzy, quite right, I think it the division gave West Bank to Jordan, and Gaza to Egypt. But when ppl talk about partition now, and say 67 borders, they are refering to that resolution. Lets face it, Jordan and Egypt dont want those territories back now!!!

(oh, and I'm sure when Yeopus reads my dissertation he can explain to you exactly why the Camp David accords were a total joke from the Palestinian perspective, and the Oslo accords!!! )

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Originally posted by George Smiley Izzy, quite right, I think it the division gave West Bank to Jordan, and Gaza to Egypt. But when ppl talk about partition now, and say 67 borders, they are refering to that resolution. Lets face it, Jordan and Egypt dont want those territories back now!!! (oh, and I'm sure when Yeopus reads my dissertation he can explain to you exactly why the Camp David accords were a total joke from the Palestinian perspective, and the Oslo accords!!! )

yes, i hope he shares that informatino with all of us

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quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley When I was refering to "law" and the "resolutions" I was talking about how they have divided the area of Palestine into Jewish and Arab territories. (Ie, when everyone says '67 borders etc)

Well the 1967 borders are refering to the 1948 borders actually, of the UN partition plan. You must realize however that there was no Palestinian country - not one country to my best knowledge has recongized a Palestinian nation in Palestine. Israel has been internationally recongized in the borders of the partition plan, and than later to the entire borders of all the land they captured to ensure territorial security in the defensive war that followed their decleration of independence.

The closest UNSC Res. 242 goes to talk about a Palestinian nation is condeming the capture of territory during war - even if defensive.

There have been many UNGA Resolutions of course, but the general assemblies has not even one utterance of respectability around the world.

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Yea of course you can read my dissertation! The topic was 'who out of the US and the EU is best placed to help the MEPP'. But the first half covers the basic topics between Israel/Palestine (ie. what the problem is, and what the answer is) Then the second half says who out of EU/US can do the most to help, and what barriers they both face. If you can send me a PM, send me ur email address and Ill email it to ya

Cool, I sent you a PM.. well be interesting to see your conclusions AND sources

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