The middle east is SOOO STABLE!! Just what america wanted. And Americans are loved even more now. Did i tell you that Bush is also a very much respected man throughout the world. Americans, dont worry, those who have been pissed of aftert heyve seen their family's get blown to bits by "precision guided" missiles that went off course, are too poor to reak havoc on your country. So Instead, they are agoing to kill your troops and even each other!

But who cares, as long as gas is cheap, life is good!

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

quote:

Originally posted by deluxe I DO! we used to fear out of scads pointing to TEL-AVIV. now we dont.. we used to try and stop money coming from saddam to hamas (he also declared that he will pay a large amount od money to every family that sent a suicide bomber, and he did, and now it stopped).

How come its ok when the US can attack Iraq for invading Kuwait, but when Iraq attacks Israel for invading Lebenon and taking the Golan heights of Syria, and stealing palestinian land its wrong?

___________________
"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

Not at all, if anything, I feel a lot less safe. Before the war, I would have said that Australia wasn't viewed as being 'in bed' with the US, we weren't a target, but after we sent troops to Iraq, our name has begun popping up in the so called 'Bin Laden Tapes' with disturbing frequency. Another key thing for me is the fact that we have a fundamentalist Islamic terror group in Jehmah Islamih (sp) (The group responsible for the Bali bombings) right on our doorstep so to speak. Supporting Bush in his crusade is the last thing we should be doing imho.

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Currently Whoring:

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quote:

Originally posted by arctic Not at all, if anything, I feel a lot less safe. Before the war, I would have said that Australia wasn't viewed as being 'in bed' with the US, we weren't a target, but after we sent troops to Iraq, our name has begun popping up in the so called 'Bin Laden Tapes' with disturbing frequency. Another key thing for me is the fact that we have a fundamentalist Islamic terror group in Jehmah Islamih (sp) (The group responsible for the Bali bombings) right on our doorstep so to speak. Supporting Bush in his crusade is the last thing we should be doing imho.

oh god-forbid we'd might provoke the terrorist, oh no that would defintely be the end of the world

I know I was always scared into submission from a weaker flamboyant party during my life.. I don't see why countries should behave any different.

Come on get some balls and confront the facts - terrorism exist before Bush and it won't go away unless somebodies has some balls to try and do something about it, and you know what, if you like em or hate him, Bush has balls.

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quote:

Originally posted by DaveSaenz My cousin is not over there getting shot at to appease Israel, nor ExxonMobil, nor Haliburton. Israel has a powerful military and they could have done their own dirty work.

Hehe, what world exactly are you living in? You might want to lay off those "mind-altering" stimulants, as clearly you are not living in the world of reality. In the world of reality, Israel has no dying hope of conquering and occupying a nation like Iraq.

And if you really still think this war is for Oil, well than go jump off a bridge, because everyone else is doing it.

quote:

No. Terrorism has increased in Iraq. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...4-2004Feb1.html

Since when? Since Saddam was in power? Yes. Since Saddam was in capture? No.

quote:

The funny thing is, gas prices have been going up steadily in the last months.

Ya those bastards are horrible - and its not even Summer, from some reason I suspect the french are behind this one.

quote:

There are no WMDs. There was nothing to be disarmed. At the very least we could have had American leaders that would have built a legit coalition or plan to oust Saddam without us having to saddle the burden virtually alone. Weren’t you the one complaining about high taxes the other day? Who do you think is going to pay for this war?

I guess your history is very short sided, the "American leaders" had tried to build a "legit coalition or plan to oust Saddam", and you know what they were told by the "legit", they were told to go "fuck off", so they decided the "Ameircan Leaders" went to the UK, Ozzieland, and so forth and went it alone.


Sure I'm complaning about taxes, but I have no problem paying a government for the sole responsibility it is given to by the people - the right to ensure that nation's security. For that I will pay (up to 5%), I was talking about all the useless things like medicare, and funding NPR, you know all the things you are for

Plus if you think this is a burden for the world's powerhouse economy, come on the US throws arounds billions here and billions there, whats another $20?

quote:

Look in the mirror.

Oh why aren't we handsome today! Rouuch!

quote:

That agreement was under negotiation for some years. He's still a dictator who brutally oppresses his people, but I guess since he's our friend now, we'll just let that slide.

So, you recommend sanctions and killing off his children, perhaps we should invade and outst him for it? I have no problem with the latter, but I think you'll have problems "affording" it.

quote:

If we followed John Kerry's and other’s plans to move us to a hydrogen economy and increase fuel efficiency for cars, that would help reduce our dependency on foreign oil. We could then slow and eventually cease the flow of money to Arab nations like Saudi Arabia that support terrorism with a wink and a nod.

What happened to Dean's plan... wait what happened to Dean?

But Kerry can do nothing more than Bush is doign now - Bush has the exact same hyrdrogen initiative - but its 5-10 years away from us now, then it will gain steam.

quote:

I like that plan better than blowing the world up and destroying the Northern half of Alaska forever for 6 months worth of oil.

Ahh come on, you have no sense of fun and adventure! Blow things up, destory a forest here in there - it'll bring a big smile to your face

quote:

Let’s face it, even if it was completely the intelligence agencies’ fault, Bush and Cheney will have near zero credibility now when it comes to the “war on terror.” It’s hard to believe a handful of chickenhawks could wield so much power and destruction.

Ohh you called American's leader's "chickenhawks"... now they are in for it! Glad to see they are running away with there tail between their legs at the first terrorist strike to kill an American.. oh wait, no they're not.

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus And if you really still think this war is for Oil, well than go jump off a bridge, because everyone else is doing it. Ohh you called American's leader's "chickenhawks"... now they are in for it!

to address your first point:
Yes it is a war for oil. i have one word for you. halliburton

secondly, you're right, they aren't chickenhawks, they're War Hawks, just like the Southern politicians in the antebellum period before the war of 1812 in america...things don't change.

___________________

It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 to address your first point: Yes it is a war for oil. i have one word for you. halliburton

I can't find that "word" in the dictionary, can you help me?

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I Don't

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We don’t thrive on military acts. We do them because we have to, and thank God we are efficient.

Ah, the Halliburton conspiracy saga continues.


See, now I could conceivably believe that a war could be for oil-somewhat in the sense of a Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome sort of way(He who controls the oil has the power/he who rules makes the rules). I mean if you look at the world from a super objective point of view and see humans acting for their survival, and energy(oil being one of the more efficient energy sources available), being the key to existence, was scarce and vital. If a culture is compelled to wage a war for energy for the sake of it's survival...see, now that actually makes sense if you think humans are nothing more than smart monkeys. But that would likely be a grounds up revolt starting on the streets due to inavailability than from the central office, and that would also make the assumption that the U.S. is somehow really desparate for more oil.

But the U.S. isn't that desparate for more oil...at least not yet, and not anytime in the immediate future for all I can tell. Alaska is sitting on a huge oil reserve that we currently don't use because PETA and Greenpeace are much more formidable foes than Afghanistan and Iraq, not to mention waging a war on yourself never got anyone reelected. We have a Strategic Petroleum reserve that was built up in the 70's, though it's meant more as a supplemental source than a primary source. There are large proven reserves in the Gulf of Mexico around Louisiana and out in the deeper water. Not to mention new technologies which are now being used to extract hydrocarbons from sources that previously weren't considered to have any energy related purpose (like clay). I remember reading recently that one of the largest proven oil reserves had been recently discovered in South America, I think. It was sizeable enough to make Iraq's supply look less dominating. I remember that this reserve was found in clay mines or something--a relatively new source of hydrocarbons at the time--the technologies involved have gotten much more advanced. Don't worry, there is plenty of oil out there--it's just a matter of how quickly it can be extracted, and how quickly we transition away from a dependence on it as more alternative fuels are being developed.

But to say a war was wagered for the primary purpose of making Halliburton shareholders filthy rich? Yeah, a guy who used to run a successful Fortune 500 Company, then sold all of his interests in order to serve his country, is somehow pulling the strings behind the scenes to manipulate intelligence agencies, the travel industry, and the global community in order to put a few more greenbacks in his pocket which he ironically doesn't even need more of in the first place? I find this argument to be high-risk.

But then again, Iraq does have the world's largest proven oil reserve, which makes for some great conspiracy theories.

Ya. the whole war for oil is one of my biggest pet peeves, i dont know why it annoys me so much, but it really doesnt add up. I've heard enough US officials who opposed the war (like madeline albright, who i saw say it in person) say that the 'war for oil' bit is ridiculous.

___________________
If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

Because Bush is such a moral guy, he felt absolutely compelled to free Iraq of the tyrannous death-grip of their leader...what a nice guy. oh please.

___________________

It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 Because Bush is such a moral guy, he felt absolutely compelled to free Iraq of the tyrannous death-grip of their leader...what a nice guy. oh please.

is that so hard to belive?

___________________
If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.