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DaveSZ
When The Levee Breaks



Registered: Jan 2003
Location: ATX

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
well did the the guy deserve to get stabbed?


Hah.

He did seem to enjoy putting people to death when he was governor of Texas.

Old Post Apr-20-2004 19:20 
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igottaknow
PerfectTeeth R4 Dinosaurs



Registered: Feb 2001
Location: The Future

quote:
Originally posted by NeoPhono
It's not that these people are coming out with books, or that they are making money off of them, its the timing of their release. If these individuals have known since the onset of Bush's administration that he was war mongering, why only now, almost four years into his presidency, while the Iraq issue is at fever pitch have so many people come forth?

Timing isn't a valid argument either. Tell me when would it be an appropriate time to release the book? Would you suggest Woodward release a book about the run up to the War before it actually happened? Since it's only been a year, how fast do you think you could write/edit/publish an intelligent book? I'd argue if the book was released earlier (at the start of the war), he would have been accused of endangering the soldiers by releasing sensitive information.

Standard White house procedure requires sensitive information to be reviewed before it can be published. In the case of Richard Clarke, he had to wait half a year for approval. In addition the publisher of the book determines when it will be released not the author. How many people are going to want to read about an administration after they're out of office. I don't see Monica or White Water books flying off the shelves. So I'll ask again at what point is it "ok" write a book about a four-year administration?

A lot of these allegations lobbed at journalists and critics of the administration are intended to discredit them without providing any concrete proof to back them up. I call death by insinuation.


___________________
GIGANTIC CUNT

Last edited by igottaknow on Apr-20-2004 at 20:45

Old Post Apr-20-2004 20:33 
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imokruok
Lawyers, guns, and money



Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA / Milwaukee, WI
Re: Woodward book to give insider account- Behind Statecraft, Bush Set Iraq War in Motion

quote:
Originally posted by DaveSZ
Bob Woodward helped bring down Richard Nixon, and he's about to bring down George W. Bush...


You wish. Although that's what you might think if you heard the first media reports, as well as Kerry's distortion of the book. One important note: Woodward has said that Kerry's interpretation of the Bush/Saudi meeting is flat-out wrong.

Yesterday, the White House actually recommended the book on its own website, so that should tell you something about what they think of its qualities.


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Old Post Apr-20-2004 23:10  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

quote:
Originally posted by igottaknow
I call death by insinuation.


Yeah, you and Bob Woodward and Dick Clark and Al Franken and his holiness the Pope and...

Old Post Apr-21-2004 00:50  United States
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DaveSZ
When The Levee Breaks



Registered: Jan 2003
Location: ATX
Re: Re: Woodward book to give insider account- Behind Statecraft, Bush Set Iraq War in Motion

quote:
Originally posted by imokruok


Yesterday, the White House actually recommended the book on its own website, so that should tell you something about what they think of its qualities.



Yes that surprised me considering they are attempting to refute some of the more damning allegations in the book, and they even got Bandar to do the same:


http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS...ndar/index.html

quote:

Woodward: Saudi envoy trying to 'fuzz up' meeting
He says Bandar told him he thought Iraq war was imminent
Friday, April 23, 2004 Posted: 7:15 PM EDT (2315 GMT)



Journalist Bob Woodward speaks on CNN's "Larry King Live."


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan's assertions that he did not learn of President Bush's decision to launch war on Iraq before Secretary of State Colin Powell are false, journalist Bob Woodward told CNN on Friday.

"For some reason, Bandar wants to fuzz this up," said Woodward, whose book "Plan of Attack" tells of a meeting in early January 2003 in which Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld briefed Bandar on war plans.

He said Bandar woke him up with a late phone call Thursday night and ended up acknowledging that Woodward's description of the meeting was accurate.

Bandar, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, has said Woodward was correct when he said he attended a meeting at the White House on a Saturday -- two days before Powell was told of the decision to go to war.

But Bandar said this week on CNN's "Larry King Live" that Woodward missed an element.

"Both Vice President Cheney and Secretary Rumsfeld told me before the briefing that the president has not made a decision yet, but here is the plan," Bandar said.

"Not true," Woodward told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "In this meeting you have the secretary of defense saying -- according to the secretary of defense's own words -- 'you can take this to the bank; this is going to happen.' And I interviewed the president, and we spent a long time going over that meeting and the meeting with Colin Powell.

"And the president is the one who said, like to Colin Powell, 'time to get your war uniform on.' That's not a maybe. That's: War is coming. It could not have been clearer. For some reason Bandar wants to fuzz this up.

"Bandar called me last night," he added. "Woke me up -- a quarter of 12. And we went through this. And I said, 'What are you doing?' "

Woodward said Bandar told him that he had officially been told that a decision had not been made, but that the White House had made it clear the decision was in fact made.

"I said, 'Well, the issue here is when you left that meeting did you think the president had decided on war?' Woodward told CNN. "Bandar said 'absolutely.' "





It bothers me that we so blindly support the Saudis when the majority of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.

I've also read reports that the Bush Administration flew members of the Bin Laden family out of the US after 9/11. WTF is up with that?

Old Post Apr-24-2004 10:59 
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DaveSZ
When The Levee Breaks



Registered: Jan 2003
Location: ATX

Here is Slate Magazine's synopsis of the book for those too lazy to read it (Karl Rove hates the Swedes for some reason lol).


http://slate.msn.com/id/2099277


The Condensed Bob Woodward
Slate reads Plan of Attack so you don't have to.
By Bryan Curtis
Posted Wednesday, April 21, 2004, at 2:51 PM PT



Want to read Bob Woodward's new book, Plan of Attack, without plowing through all 467 gossip-soaked pages? We can help! Slate has taken Woodward's tome and reduced it to a point-by-point executive summary. Grab a copy from the nearest bookstore and read along.

Secrets of the Bushies

Page 9: The first sign of the Bush administration's desire to attack Iraq comes days before Bush's 2001 inauguration. Dick Cheney asks outgoing Defense Secretary Bill Cohen to brief the president "about Iraq and different options." During the briefing, Cheney falls asleep.

Page 25: Hours after the Sept. 11 attacks, Donald Rumsfeld asks Pentagon colleagues about the possibility of striking Saddam Hussein. An aide records in his notes: "hit S.H. @ same time—not only UBL [Usama Bin Laden]."

Page 190: In September 2002, Bush tells the press that Iraq can launch a biological or chemical attack within 45 minutes—an assertion that the CIA finds completely phony. Director George Tenet refers to it as the "they-can-attack-in-45-minutes shit."


Continue Article

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Page 250: Karl Rove, a Norwegian-American, is obsessed with the "historical duplicity" of the Swedes, who seized Norway back in 1814. This nationalism manifests itself as hatred for Swedish weapons inspector Hans Blix.

Page 290: Paul Wolfowitz, one of the administration's fiercest neocons, entertains wild theories linking al-Qaida to remnants of Cold War spycraft. He wonders whether Bin Laden is in league with former East German intelligence agents. Unnamed "heads of state" warn him that al-Qaida may be working with ex-KGB officers.

Page 324: Saudi ambassador Prince Bandar bin Sultan hints that the Saudi regime will tinker with oil prices to boost the American economy before the 2004 elections.

Colin Powell vs. Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld

Page 25: Much of Woodward's book involves the administration's efforts to marginalize, or completely ignore, Colin Powell. After Rumsfeld and others raise the idea of striking Iraq in response to 9/11, Powell tells Gen. Hugh Shelton, "What the hell! What are these guys thinking about? Can't you get these guys back in the box?"

Page 182-83: Powell reveals that he detests Rumsfeld's circuitous manner of speaking—"One would think …"; "Some would say …"—which he dubs "third-person passive once removed."

Page 164-66: Cheney tells a Veterans of Foreign Wars convention on Aug. 26, 2002, that there's "no doubt" Saddam has weapons of mass destruction. Powell goes ballistic at the suggestion.

Page 175: Powell fears that Cheney is losing his mild manner. As the veep presses for quick action against Iraq, "Powell detected a kind of fever in Cheney. He was not the steady, unemotional rock that he had witnessed a dozen years earlier during the run-up to the Gulf War. The vice president was beyond hell-bent for action against Saddam."

Page 269-70: Bush informs Powell of his decision to go to war after he informs Prince Bandar. After conferring with the president, Powell is "semidespondent." (Read Timothy Noah's "Chatterbox" column for more on the timing of Bush's decision.)

Donald Rumsfeld vs. the Generals

Page 14: On Feb. 16, 2001, American and British planes bomb Iraqi targets to enforce the no-fly zones. No one from the Joint Chiefs of Staff bothers to inform the secretary of defense.

Page 6: Pressing for more power, Rumsfeld micromanages Iraq war plans. Gen. Tommy Franks tells him (according to insider accounts), "This ain't going to work. You can fire me. I'm either the commander or I'm not, and you've got to trust me or you don't."

Page 91-92: Bonus Rumsfeld snub: He admits he can't remember vetting Bush's "Axis of Evil" speech, the address that has come to define his foreign policy. "That speech was not particularly in my area," he explains.

Tommy Franks' Inspirational Profanities

Page 115: Franks to lethargic commanders before the Iraq war: "This is fucking serious. You know, if you guys think this is not going to happen, you're wrong. You need to get off your ass."

Page 118: To the Joint Chiefs: "You Title X mother******s!"

Page 281: On Douglas Feith, the Pentagon's undersecretary for policy: "I have to deal with the fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth almost every day."

Condi Rice as Bush's Consigliere

Page 23: "She is not married and has no immediate family; it seemed she was on call for the president 24 hours a day in her West Wing office. ... Tending to the president and his priorities was her primary goal."

Page 127: When Karl Rove worries about the perception in the media that he's meddling in foreign affairs, Bush says: "Don't worry about it. Condi's territorial. She's a woman."

Page 160: Condi dresses down Brent Scowcroft, the former national security adviser, for writing an antiwar editorial in Wall Street Journal. Scowcroft ends his antiwar campaign.

Dick Armitage as Powell's Consigliere

Page 20: Powell and Armitage—whom Woodward describes as a "cross between Daddy Warbucks and a World Wrestling Federation champ"—are best friends. "The two talk on the phone so many times each day that aides think of them as teenagers joined at the hip, committed to sharing absolutely everything."

Page 39: Armitage learns of a forthcoming New York Times story that will paint Powell as exceedingly dovish. He convinces the reporter that the State Department is hip to the Saddam threat. Or, as he later says privately, "Oh, State, they're in the game. They want to get these ******s."

Page 149: Armitage advises Powell to schedule one-on-one bonding sessions with Bush. Powell reports back, "I think we're really making some headway in the relationship. I know we really connected."

Page 176: Armitage helped Powell revise the portions of his autobiography that concerned his frosty relationship with Dick Cheney. Powell calls the finished passages "relatively truthful but not harmful."

George Tenet's Predictive Powers

Page 116-17: Months before the war begins, Tenet assures Iraq's top Kurdish leaders that the U.S. military will attack the Baathist regime. Bush has issued no such order, but Tenet proves right. As Woodward puts it, "He would sell fucking tea to Chinamen to make sure his officers got protection."

Page 186-87: Bush cites a CIA report that says 71 percent of the French population sees Saddam as a "threat to world peace." The report is bogus—the French vigorously oppose the war.

Page 247-49: At a December 2002 briefing, Tenet's deputy makes the case that Iraq is harboring weapons of mass destruction. Bush says, "I've been told all this intelligence about having WMD and this is the best we've got?" Tenet raises his arms and says, "Don't worry, it's a slam-dunk!" To date, no WMD have been found in Iraq.

Page 387-99: On March 19, 2003, Tenet informs Bush of CIA reports that suggest Saddam and his sons are hiding out on an Iraqi farm. Later, after an airstrike ordered by the president, Tenet says, "Tell the president we got the son of a bitch." Saddam and his sons survive the attack.

Woodward's Table Scraps

Every Woodward production contains a half-dozen throwaway details that would make lesser reporters drool. Here's the best of the lot:

Page 11: Bush as glutton: At a Pentagon briefing, staffers lay out peppermint candy for each attendee. Bush scarfs down his peppermint, and then begins to eye Bill Cohen's treat, which the former secretary gladly relinquishes. Gen. Hugh Shelton, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, "noticed Bush eyeing his mint, so he passed it over."

Page 112: On a Mideast trip, Lynne Cheney lunches with an emir's wife. When do the children here in Bahrain begin school? she asks. The emir's wife reminds Cheney that she's in Qatar.

Page 184: The TelePrompTer text of Bush's climactic speech to the United Nations somehow omits his call for resolutions against the Iraqi regime. Bush remembers and ad-libs the line.

Page 186: Bush aide Nick Calio declares his intention to vitiate a congressional filibuster. Bush says, "Nicky, what the fuck are you talking about, vitiate?"

Page 336: A CIA report suggests that Saddam, whose army can barely muster working tanks or planes, has red-and-white submarines patrolling the Tigris River. The agency immediately discards the report.

Page 244: Woodward meets Bush at a White House Christmas party in 2002. Though it's months before the prez would declare war on Iraq, Bush suggests that a sequel to Woodward's previous best seller, Bush at War, should be in the works. "Maybe it will be called More Bush at War," Bush says. Laura Bush responds, "Let's hope not."

Old Post Apr-24-2004 11:01 
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Woodward book to give insider account- Behind Statecraft, Bush Set Iraq War in Motion
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