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George Smiley
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: 9 Bywater Street, Chelsea, London

I saw this documentary once about this Proffessor who is actually building a 'time machine' (I actually emailed him to explain to him why, if his beliefs were correct, his time machine might destroy the universe. He didn't reply)

In this machine, there are some lasers that are arranged in some sort of spiral formation. No fucking idea how it was supposed to work but they were gonna send a particle into the machine which would bounce of the laser beams and reach the speed of light, coming out of the machine before he put it in!

Basically, as soon as he switches this machine on he should recieve the particles he already put in in the future (figures!) So he had to believe in the mutiple universe theory otherwise when he saw these particles and decided not to put a particle in the machine then how could they get there?

My problem was that if this works as planned and there is a multipe universe (an infinate number of universes) then when he switched the machine on, in theory, there could be an infinate number of particles appearing in the same spot at the same time (which if it were infinate, would mean as many particles as there are in the universe, ie alot, appearing in one spot at the same time!) if there are an infinate alternate futures where this guy puts a particle in the machine. Not sure what would happen if the same amount of particles that existed in the entire universe appeared in one spot at the same time, but I didn't like it and emailed him my concerns.

Crazy bastard never replied!!!

Old Post Apr-19-2004 18:22  England
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trancaholic
Danish Prophet of Doom



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aalborg

In answer to the original question: Nothing in the current theories of physics prevents it. Read David Deutsch's "Fabric of Reality" for some really mind-blowing explanations as to why the "paradoxes" related to time travel (e.g. the grandfather paradox) really is no hindrance either.


quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
In a word, of course! The way you have posed the question, I just travelled from 10:53 to 10:55 as I wrote this message!

Honestly though, I have never been able to fully believe that the speed of light is an asymptotic velocity. Given that the speed itself is an absolute number, 3x10^8 m/sec is very fast, but if there is no scientific reason why something can't travel at 2.999999x10^8, then why can't something go just a little faster with a little more incremental energy. I guess I have a hard time believing it because in my mind an infinite amount of input should lead to an infitite output, and given that 3X10^8 is a finite number, it would seem to me that a finite amount of energy would be required to reach that speed. Of course relativity complicates things immensely! Whether time travel is indeed possible or not, it is interesting to think about the ramifications of crossing over the speed of light threshold. I have no clue what would happen or what the experience would be like. I remember an old physics professor telling me that even if we could go faster than the speed of light, it would be impossible to reverse course and cross the threshold again back to the other side once said velocity is reached.


The problem of the "add more energy to gain that last bit of speed" argument, is that E=mc^2-thingy. When you add more energy to the high speed object that you want to accellerate even more, there's no reason why the added energy should translate into greater speed. It can just as easily be transfered into extra mass. Therefore, you can push your object as long as you desire, it just gains in weight rather than accellerate.

Old Post Apr-19-2004 18:33  Denmark
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nrjizer
vive le deep



Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Bumfuck, GA

quote:
Originally posted by George Smiley
I saw this documentary once about this Proffessor who is actually building a 'time machine' (I actually emailed him to explain to him why, if his beliefs were correct, his time machine might destroy the universe. He didn't reply)

In this machine, there are some lasers that are arranged in some sort of spiral formation. No fucking idea how it was supposed to work but they were gonna send a particle into the machine which would bounce of the laser beams and reach the speed of light, coming out of the machine before he put it in!

Basically, as soon as he switches this machine on he should recieve the particles he already put in in the future (figures!) So he had to believe in the mutiple universe theory otherwise when he saw these particles and decided not to put a particle in the machine then how could they get there?

My problem was that if this works as planned and there is a multipe universe (an infinate number of universes) then when he switched the machine on, in theory, there could be an infinate number of particles appearing in the same spot at the same time (which if it were infinate, would mean as many particles as there are in the universe, ie alot, appearing in one spot at the same time!) if there are an infinate alternate futures where this guy puts a particle in the machine. Not sure what would happen if the same amount of particles that existed in the entire universe appeared in one spot at the same time, but I didn't like it and emailed him my concerns.

Crazy bastard never replied!!!


This has already been done, I think at CERN? Well, somewhere at least, scientists have managed to use a similar technique to bounce a laser back in time so that it shone before it was turned on... but the thing is, it travelled back an extremely tiny tiny fraction of a second. So to the human brain, all it saw was a switch being thrown and a laser turning on. It took sophisticated computers to measure the difference. So that rules out the possibility of the paradox of turning it on, then not actually turning it on, or whatever.


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Old Post Apr-19-2004 18:34  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

you must be able to escape the confines of relativity to move forward through time. relative to to the observer.



i.e. another form of physics need to be applied.


...and they can only be applied in theory because you humans have not graduated to the next level of energy manipulation.

relativity owns you.

Old Post Apr-19-2004 18:56  United States
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Moongoose
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Celje, Slovenia

quote:
The problem of the "add more energy to gain that last bit of speed" argument, is that E=mc^2-thingy. When you add more energy to the high speed object that you want to accellerate even more, there's no reason why the added energy should translate into greater speed. It can just as easily be transfered into extra mass. Therefore, you can push your object as long as you desire, it just gains in weight rather than accellerate.


I think my physics professor was once telling me that even if the energy didnt trasfer into mass, that it would be impossible to reach the speed of light. You would always be off for just a little. Like you reach 0.99, go a bit faster and instead of doing 1.0 (speed of light) you would be doing 0.991 ad infinitum .



But even as im saying that now i still belive that some time in the (distant) future a man will stand up from a chair and say "Set course fot the Second star to the right and straight on 'til morning...Warp 9 engage"


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Old Post Apr-19-2004 19:02  Slovenia
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by trancaholic

The problem of the "add more energy to gain that last bit of speed" argument, is that E=mc^2-thingy. When you add more energy to the high speed object that you want to accellerate even more, there's no reason why the added energy should translate into greater speed. It can just as easily be transfered into extra mass. Therefore, you can push your object as long as you desire, it just gains in weight rather than accellerate.


Thanks. Makes perfect sense, I just don't want to believe it!

Old Post Apr-19-2004 19:17  United States
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George Smiley
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: 9 Bywater Street, Chelsea, London

I actually time travel into the future all the time! Everytime I fall asleep or read a book on the train time always speeds itself up!

Old Post Apr-19-2004 19:33  England
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
you must be able to escape the confines of relativity to move forward through time. relative to to the observer.



i.e. another form of physics need to be applied.


...and they can only be applied in theory because you humans have not graduated to the next level of energy manipulation.

relativity owns you.


your avatar kills. its awesome


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Old Post Apr-19-2004 19:34  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Mebot
Maverick



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
John Titor as well.


Dave Attell time travels as well.

quote:
I started blacking out - or as I call it, time-travel. You wake up, you're playing that knife game with a half-Indian somewhere in North Dakota. You black out again, you wake up, you're in White Castle workin' there three years, still not assistant manager. Your buddies tell you to quit, but you can't 'cause you're bangin' the slow girl on the fryer. They say she's a little dim but those titties ain't dim"

Old Post Apr-19-2004 20:13 
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

quote:
Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk::
your avatar kills. its awesome

thanx.

Old Post Apr-19-2004 21:17  United States
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DrUg_Tit0
e^(i*pi)+1=0



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

quote:
Originally posted by trancaholic
The problem of the "add more energy to gain that last bit of speed" argument, is that E=mc^2-thingy. When you add more energy to the high speed object that you want to accellerate even more, there's no reason why the added energy should translate into greater speed. It can just as easily be transfered into extra mass. Therefore, you can push your object as long as you desire, it just gains in weight rather than accellerate.


Heh, it's more like it seems that the object is gaining mass because more and more energy is needed for it to keep accelerating. The formula goes that E=(mc^2)/sqrt(1-(v^2/c^2). So I guess you could say that 1/sqrt(1-(v^2/c^2)) is some sort of imaginary mass modifier.

Now, about the future. Ever wonder how those communicators know to whom their owners want to speak? Say for example, when Picard (the ship captain, not the one who created the funnel shaped universe theory) tries to speak to Riker. He says "Picard to Riker". But have you noticed that Riker hears on his communicator that same "Picard to Riker" sentence? And nobody hears it except him. So somehow the communicator knows that Picard wants to speak to Riker even before he actually says that "Picard to Riker" sentence. That's been bugging me for years now...


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Old Post Apr-19-2004 22:20  Croatia
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arctic
Teh Pwn



Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Australia

quote:
Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk::
your avatar kills. its awesome


I thought you were a fundamentalist Christian? Surely that's lust & sexual immorality?

Deary me, you'd better repent asap - or you're going to hell my friend!


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Old Post Apr-20-2004 08:30  Australia
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