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Originally posted by tathi artic the devout atheist preist preaches secular humanism :P

He's the secular Fundamentalist.

Last edited by DaveSZ on Jun-15-2004 at 13:01

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Originally posted by arctic Eh? He doesn't come across as 'ashamed' to me, he just doesn't like the idea of faith - which is completely understandable. Faith is what you're left with when you've got no proof to back up what you're saying. Unless I'm misunderstanding you?

Ashamed that he is tired of people refering to him as "christian" but seeks to aknowledge himself as a product of god. maybe i was too harsh, but to me that is a result of shame in it's most fundamental form.

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I must admit, you've lost me here. How is he 'hiding behind a definition'?

he seeks reasoning in a word to identify himself. which is fine, we all do and again, was harsh. I may not have been in the best of moods last night

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Originally posted by Q5echo Ashamed that he is tired of people refering to him as "christian" but seeks to aknowledge himself as a product of god. maybe i was too harsh, but to me that is a result of shame in it's most fundamental form.

Erm, hate to break it to you, but god!=christianity.

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quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Erm, hate to break it to you, but god!=christianity.

i know...it's silly, isn't it?

OK i did some reading od Deism from deism.com and deism.org and http://www.sullivan-county.com/deism.htm

here is some of what these sites say it is all about and that i agree with...

“I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life.
I believe the equality of man, and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy.”
Thomas Paine


Deism is for those that are fed-up with "organized religion" and being told what to think. In the end it's the individual that must decide and should have the freedom to do so. That doesn't make one wrong or damned if they decide to follow another path, there is no hell in Deism.


Deism is defined "One who believes in the existence of a God or supreme being but denies revealed religion, basing his belief on the light of nature and reason."


Deism and deistic thinking is the majority of Christians, Jews, and other religious backgrounds that respect traditions and apply reason to their faith while retaining what is in reality Jewish moral codes, belief in God, etc. but reject obvious nonsense such as Original Sin, damnation, the divinity of Jesus (just a man).
They accept what is reasonable and reject what is nonsense. These are true free thinkers who ponder and consider all the facts to draw a conclusion.


Deism supports individual thought and the right to ask questions.


Deism removes much of the influence of Eastern Religion and its emphasis on magic, prophecy, and revelation. Deism is not a religion but a philosophy that emphasizes morality and reason without the need of supervision or benediction of the Creator in our everyday lives.


Deists do not accept the divine authority of the Christian bible (or any revealed holy books) since there are too many errors and contradictions.


Deists reject the concept of a personal god that will help one through life's difficulties. God expects us to deal with our problems here and now.


As Deists, we believe the greatest gift we have been given by God is the gift of Reason; and Reason is the very thing that must be suppressed in order to live by "faith."


Deists do not attribute human qualities to God and reject those teachings that depicts our Creator as a homicidal maniac who drowns the world in floods (Genesis), kills children just to punish somebody else (Exodus), or presents our Creator as a fool to be outwitted by a mythical serpent. We don't consider ourselves God or part of God, just part of Creation


Love your fellow man not because an ancient book tells you to, but because you feel it is right. Do what is right not out of fear of punishment, but out of the joy of helping your fellow man. Love God not so that God will do your bidding, but because you love the universe God gave you to explore. Die not so that you may be martyred or eternally rewarded, but so you may rest. - Ford Vox

Deists, by definition, believe that God exists. However, the precise manner in which each individual Deist perceives God is personal and subjective. Some see God as the supreme or ultimate reality. Others see God as the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe. Some conceive God as the infinite Mind or incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit. However, regardless of how God is perceived by Deists, the common thread is that God does indeed exist.


As a Deist, I believe we are all the sons/daughters of God and are responsible for our actions. Both Jesus and James are correct that by "works" and our personal conduct that we will best follow God. Deists deal with the real world today, not try to cut some deal with God for a reward in an afterlife. (Some Deists believe in an afterlife, others don't.) Personal conduct is what important, not any particular belief system.


so i agree with all of the above...so i guess i am a Deist...

But i have a few questions that i could not find answers to:

1. They say God created the universe and we evolved...but does that mean God simply created matter?..Or he created the planets as well..like Earth etc?

2. They beleive God set this all in motion..but do they beleive he knew where it would go...i.e. that man would eventually evolve, as well as trees, seas and things of those sort?

3. Some say they beleive in an afterlife so i guess Deism lets you beleive some things?



one thing i think that they dont seem to - is the fact that i beleive God intended for man to evolve..but does not interfere..he set it all in motion but with a sort of plan as to where it would go...but i dont beleive we are Gods children....just that he intended for us in some shape or form.

All i know is i definatly beleive in A God..because the world is to beautiful not to!



oh ya...on these 2
1. Deists reject the concept of a personal god that will help one through life's difficulties. God expects us to deal with our problems here and now.


2. As Deists, we believe the greatest gift we have been given by God is the gift of Reason; and Reason is the very thing that must be suppressed in order to live by "faith."

They say God expects us to deal with our problems heer and now...but i thought that Deist did not think that God has anythign to dow ith modern man...confused here...

and the greatest gift by god being reason..also confused...how could God give man a gift if all he did was set the universe in motion...

points like these make me confused...and help?


and one more i am troubled by
"Some conceive God as the infinite Mind or incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit. "

so are they saying that Desit CAN belive God is an almighty spirit that rules over us???...and that can tie into how some beleive in an afterlife...????

Sorry i am just curious...

Last edited by tiesto14 on Jun-16-2004 at 03:54

Just found this site
http://www.positivedeism.com/deistdoc.html


They have questions to help you decide if you are a Deist..here they are with my answers...

You might be a Deist if:


You believe in God but are not accepting of the authoritarian creeds of any particular religion. YES

You believe that God's word is the universe (nature), not human-written holy books. YES

You like to reason or speculate what God might be like rather than be taught about it. YES

You think that religious ideas should reconcile with and not contradict science. YES

You enjoy the freedom of seeking spirituality on your own. YES

You are morally guided by ethics and conscience rather than by scriptures. YES

You are an individual thinker whose religious beliefs are not formed from tradition or authority. YES

You like to call yourself rational or spiritual before you call yourself religious. YES

You believe that religion and government (church and state) should be separate. YES




OK here are more questions and my answers
Although Deists don't have an official set of tenents, there are a few beliefs that most Deists agree on. Here is a list of seven unofficial basic Deist beliefs:


Belief in an intelligent designer of the universe. YES

Belief that the intelligent designer is "outside" the universe, and not part of the universe (as in pantheism). UNSURE

Belief that after the Deity created the universe, He stepped away from it to allow it to evolve naturally based on the laws of physics which He created without any need for His further intervention. UNSURE

Belief that the Deity does not perform "miracles" which defy the laws of physics, or intervene in a supernatural way in the affairs of mankind. YES

Belief that the Deity does not reveal Himself to mankind through priests or other "enlightened" individuals, but rather through the workings of nature. YES

Belief that the Deity imposes no pre-ordained, or divinely inspired moral code of behavior on mankind, but rather expects man to develop his own codes of conduct for living in harmony with his fellow man based on his God-given Reason. YES

Although there is no scientific evidence for an afterlife, most Deists do have a "hope" for an afterlife. YES

The above list is not intended to be a dogmatic set of rules that Deists MUST believe. In fact, Deists regularly discuss, debate and modify various aspects of the above items all the time. That's a good thing about Deism. It doesn't tell you what you MUST believe. However, if you are a Deist, then you are probably in agreement with most of the items listed above.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveSZ He's the secular Fundamentalist.

You've never met a real atheist fundie, have you?

Try and find one, they'll happily inform you that the government should affirm that there is no god as opposed to staying neutral on the subject, that all religious people have a mental disease and need psychiatric help - and that religious people should be disqualified from running or any form of government. How's that for fundamentalism?

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Originally posted by tathi artic the devout atheist preist preaches secular humanism :P

Haha. There's actually a website where you can legally register yourself as a 'humanist clergy' member. Then you can perform weddings, funerals etc. - and all without any training whatsoever!

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Originally posted by tiesto14 But i have a few questions that i could not find answers to: 1. They say God created the universe and we evolved...but does that mean God simply created matter?..Or he created the planets as well..like Earth etc? 2. They beleive God set this all in motion..but do they beleive he knew where it would go...i.e. that man would eventually evolve, as well as trees, seas and things of those sort?

It means that god simply started it all up, and decided not to interfere afterwards. Planets and stuff were not a direct creation by god, only the natural laws which caused such a creation are. Same goes for people and animals. Since a god is an omniscient being, he knew what's gonna come out of it.

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3. Some say they beleive in an afterlife so i guess Deism lets you beleive some things?

Yes.

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oh ya...on these 2 1. Deists reject the concept of a personal god that will help one through life's difficulties. God expects us to deal with our problems here and now. 2. As Deists, we believe the greatest gift we have been given by God is the gift of Reason; and Reason is the very thing that must be suppressed in order to live by "faith." They say God expects us to deal with our problems heer and now...but i thought that Deist did not think that God has anythign to dow ith modern man...confused here...

It's not so much that he expects us to deal with our own problems and will reward us for doing so as it means that he will not interfere in one's personal problems. It's either you solve your problems on your own or you don't solve them at all.

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and the greatest gift by god being reason..also confused...how could God give man a gift if all he did was set the universe in motion... points like these make me confused...and help?

Because he knew how the universe will end up with. So he created the universe that allowed men to evolve as reasonable beings.

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and one more i am troubled by "Some conceive God as the infinite Mind or incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit. " so are they saying that Desit CAN belive God is an almighty spirit that rules over us???...and that can tie into how some beleive in an afterlife...???? Sorry i am just curious...

Well, yes, but that rule kinda shows presents itself as natural laws. Now, after you die, who knows what happens to your consciousness. It may or may not go to afterlife, neither can be proven.

Keep in mind though, that these are not my own opinions as I do not consider myself to be a deist.

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WTF is Renegade talking about?!?!?!?; dude, you could probably be classified as Agnostic because you do not belive in Christianity but you only belive that there is some higher being.

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Originally posted by DJ Rat 187 WTF is Renegade talking about?!?!?!?; dude, you could probably be classified as Agnostic because you do not belive in Christianity but you only belive that there is some higher being.

God damn it, will you people ever get a clue? There are other beliefs in god beside christianity and a person can believe in god without being a christian or a member of any other organized religion for that matter. Such people are called deists or pantheists or whatever, depending on their views. They are not agnostics. Re-read what Renegade said because those are correct definitions.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 God damn it, will you people ever get a clue? There are other beliefs in god beside christianity and a person can believe in god without being a christian or a member of any other organized religion for that matter. Such people are called deists or pantheists or whatever, depending on their views. They are not agnostics. Re-read what Renegade said because those are correct definitions.

so what was this all about then chuckles?

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Erm, hate to break it to you, but god!=christianity

Last edited by Q5echo on Jun-16-2004 at 23:47

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Originally posted by DJ Rat 187 WTF is Renegade talking about?!?!?!?; dude, you could probably be classified as Agnostic because you do not belive in Christianity but you only belive that there is some higher being.

Er, what?

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so what was this all about then chuckles?

!= means "does not equal".

What he's saying in both posts is that just because someone doesn't believe in the Christian God, that there are still other Gods for them to believe in. Christianity is not the be all and end all of religious persuits.

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