I believed before and after the war that it was all about the oil. The claim that our intention was to steal their oil out right was ridiculous and is just a straw man argument.

What we wanted first and foremost was the removal of an anti-American regime that we by our own doing had crippled its oil production by our UN oil sanctions.

Once we toppled Saddam we could give our oil companies exclusive access to billion dollar contracts. If we could get our hands on Cheney's energy plan, I'm sure we would have undeniable proof. Why steal oil when you can have your buddies at Halliburton making a tidy profit producing it?

After they've rebuilt and developed Iraqi's oil infrasturture we will benefit for many years to come in the way of inexpensive oil due the increase of oil production.

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GIGANTIC CUNT

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok But they weren't colonial. Europe showed up, bled them dry, and then left without leaving a stable government in place. While the US has certainly left, we didn't seize Kuwaiti fields and put them under the US flag, nor did we attempt to seize Vietnam for our own economic purposes. (What was there, I have no idea...) I should have been more clear. I think the Europeans can't understand our actions because they're nothing like what the Europeans did when they had the power to do so.

Ahh, I see. Actually I should have read it a little closer. It's rare that you do not make coherent points. Apologies.

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok But they weren't colonial. Europe showed up, bled them dry, and then left without leaving a stable government in place. While the US has certainly left, we didn't seize Kuwaiti fields and put them under the US flag, nor did we attempt to seize Vietnam for our own economic purposes. (What was there, I have no idea...)

but you fighted for your economical systems.

and euro colonial time was shite, indeed. i would hate my country if i lived at the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo thats what youd like to think wouldn't it? the truth is i care about what the world thinks of my country as much as you think the world cares about yours.

How Arrogant

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Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

Back to topic - for those of you who haven't read the huge article in the NYTimes pertaining to Guantanamo Bay prisoners, here's the first page of it:

quote:

U.S. Said to Overstate Value of Guantánamo Detainees By TIM GOLDEN and DON VAN NATTA Jr. Published: June 21, 2004 UANTÁNAMO BAY, Cuba, June 19 — For nearly two and a half years, American officials have maintained that locked within the steel-mesh cells of the military prison here are some of the world's most dangerous terrorists -- ''the worst of a very bad lot,'' Vice President Dick Cheney has called them. The officials say information gleaned from the detainees has exposed terrorist cells, thwarted planned attacks and revealed vital intelligence about Al Qaeda. The secrets they hold and the threats they pose justify holding them indefinitely without charge, Bush administration officials have said. But as the Supreme Court prepares to rule on the legal status of the 595 men imprisoned here, an examination by The New York Times has found that government and military officials have repeatedly exaggerated both the danger the detainees posed and the intelligence they have provided. In interviews, dozens of high-level military, intelligence and law-enforcement officials in the United States, Europe and the Middle East said that contrary to the repeated assertions of senior administration officials, none of the detainees at the United States Naval Base at Guantánamo Bay ranked as leaders or senior operatives of Al Qaeda. They said only a relative handful -- some put the number at about a dozen, others more than two dozen -- were sworn Qaeda members or other militants able to elucidate the organization's inner workings. While some Guantánamo intelligence has aided terrorism investigations, none of of it has enabled intelligence or law-enforcement services to foil imminent attacks, the officials said. Compared with the higher-profile Qaeda operatives held elsewhere by the C.I.A., the Guantánamo detainees have provided only a trickle of intelligence with current value, the officials said. Because nearly all of that intelligence is classified, most of the officials would discuss it only on the condition of anonymity. ''When you have the overall mosaic of all the intelligence picked up all over the world, Guantánamo provided a very small piece of that mosaic,'' said a senior American official who has reviewed the intelligence in detail. ''It's been helpful and valuable in certain areas. Was it the mother lode of intelligence? No.'' In September 2002, eight months after the detainees began to arrive in Cuba, a top-secret study by the Central Intelligence Agency raised questions about their significance, suggesting that many of the accused terrorists appeared to be low-level recruits who went to Afghanistan to support the Taliban or even innocent men swept up in the chaos of the war, current and former officials who read the assessment said. Nearly two years later, military officials said, the evidence against many of the detainees is still so sparse that investigators have been able to deliver cases for military prosecution against only 15 of the suspects, 6 of whom have already been designated as eligible for trial by President Bush. Investigators are now preparing 35 to 40 other cases for the military tribunals, those officials said. In interviews, officials at Guantánamo and in the Pentagon defended the intelligence-gathering effort and said it continued to produce useful information. ''Every single day we get some piece of information that's relevant to now,'' said Steve Rodriguez, who oversees the interrogation teams at the base. Officials said the intelligence had allowed them to piece together a more detailed picture of Al Qaeda before Sept. 11, 2001, including how young jihadis were recruited and screened, how the organization moved funds and how it related to other militant groups. They said some were important Qaeda operatives, including financiers, a bodyguard for Osama bin Laden and -- a recent discovery -- a militant who they say helped recruit 9/11 hijackers. Yet even as he argued the importance of that information, the commander of the task force that runs the Guantánamo prison, Brig. Gen. Jay W. Hood, acknowledged disappointment among some senior officials in Washington. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/21/politics/21GITM.html

Damn interesting and long read, but if you haven't done your free registration at NYTimes yet, you're just being a wiener.

Anyone else have the image of Jack Nicholson saying "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!", every time you hear about Guantanamo Bay?

Ehh, probably just me.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Anyone else have the image of Jack Nicholson saying "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!", every time you hear about Guantanamo Bay? Ehh, probably just me.

Amen, Brutha!

quote:

You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls...and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know - that Santigo's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties...you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall! We use words like "honor", "code", "loyalty". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide...and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn...what you think you are entitled to!

quote:

Originally posted by LiquidX How Arrogant

read it again nancy.

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow Just heard the American hostage held in Saudi Arabia has been beheaded. Looks like Bush's war on terror instead of making us safer, is having the opposite effect . This is the 2nd beheading of an American in little over a month. Can you say Abu Gharib? If this is considered progress...

As I've pointed out in another thread, the only way to stop terrorists doing whatever they do is to get rid of them. If, just once, governments gave in to the demands of terrorists in the threat of a bombing or something similar, the world really would go down the pan. If all the terrorist groups knew that they could get what they wanted by threatening people, there'd be no end to it until the entire world was in chaos and run completely by fanatics with extremist views.

It is unfortunate that some innocent people are victims of the war on terror, but there needs to be a war. If the world was left the way it was, there would continually be incidents like 9/11. They would be never-ending. It needs to stop. These terrorists have proved time and time again that they dont respond to diplomacy, and so they will only respond to force.

People see the truths of what happens during a war much more when they face a real one for themselves, but the truth of the matter is, things like this happen all the time. The only reason that people hear more about it during war time is because anti-war protestors do everything they can to expose the gruesome details of war in the hope of turning people to their cause.

Hearing about beheadings and equally unethical practices during wartime is obviously going to taint people's views on the war as a whole, but you have to remember that with a lot of persistance, these terrorists will be captured and unable to threaten anyone again. It will take a lot of time and money, and many people may die as a result, but the fact remains that if nothing is done, people will continue to die anyway, at the hands of the terrorists simply because of their fanatical views and such.

It will never look good for any politician to make a decision that may have caused the death of civilians indirectly, but it is for the overall good of the world. I think people lose sight of that sometimes.

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quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo read it again nancy.

HeH sorry, I understood something totally different.

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Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)