the thing i hate about technics, is the fact that you pay so much for so little. when i play on them, i have to constantly take into consideration how fast the track, and whetehr or not i can play what i want.

this is why i like using decks that have slightly more than a standard 100mm pitch fader, 33, and 45 rpm.

ultra-pitch or something similar is very nice to have (see above reason), and also i like my decks to have a reverse function. another handy feature is start and brake speed adjusters (see vestax pdx2000). also, i prefer a deck with more than 1.5kg of torque, it makes life easier for me in the long-run. i also hate the platter design of the technics, too damn bobbly... i'm also a fan of straight arms, in particular the ASTS on vestax, never budges from the record and makes for quicker cueing.

i am pretty sure my vestax decks will last nearly as long as a 1210 or 1200, and they cost £100 cheaper. even if they don't last as long, i dont care, i've had more fun using them!

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MUGGETS

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I strongly feel people suggesting Techs are the ones who are afraid of change and just get techs because that's what you "should do". I feel most of them haven't even tried any other decks. I would suggest getting Numark TTX-1's instead. Slightly cheaper than the techs not a bit worse. Of course I can't say anything about how long they will last since I've only had them for a couple of months, but I can't say I'm regretting my purchase yet.

well no not quite

I recommend technics because i have used them night in night out at work for years- they are reliable, do what they do well, and easily serviceable.
You can find a pair that is 25 yrs old that will still be beat perfect and feel like new.

I have tried other turntables. nothing feels or behaves like a techs when you give it a nudge or swipe the platter.
I make a point of trying each and every turntable and new piece of eqpt. when it enters the market- it makes sense to know any possible tools i may encounter.

Incidentally only one club ive worked at had anything other than a 1200/1210 which was vestax- and i hated the feel of them+ the straight tonearm was annoying. Platter felt too heavy too. Perfectly useable, but going up against an established and very highly regarded industry standard.

Any club that fitted numark turntables would be laughed at im afraid- thats a fact. Its still not regarded as pro audio by the people that matter. It also has no proven reliability record.

lets use an analogy here:

Say you are an olympic runner. You practice for years running while wearing wooden clogs-
Then when the big event comes you ( for the first time ever) wear top of the line running shoes
You find these awkward and alien- you struggle to use them effectively and consequently BURN in front of everyone..

If it aint broke- dont fix it.

quote:

Originally posted by Freak If it aint broke- dont fix it.

if its pants, improve it.

technics need to do some of this, they have been churning out the same deck for xx years and giving it the next number up every couple of years to make people buy them again.

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MUGGETS

yes but its not pants- thats the whole point.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery A turntable is a turntable ffs, they all have the same basic functions. Why pay for overpriced stuff just because it's something you should do because everyone else does so?

i hear where your coming from as far as people being afraid to change and following in the crowd.....but in this situation, it is my opinion, that numark is not the new turntable of these times....i would rather pay a couple more bucks and use something that will last forever with maintenance and i will be used to playing on when i play out...

also i am not sure if the pitch is like the vestax pdx-d3s but it was like play'n with cd's that only went to .1....where u had to constantly be pitch bending( joystick on pdx-d3s)/ move the platter or whatever method u use to adjust your pitch where the technic are analog pitch and are more sensitive

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[urlhttp://soundcloud.com/billy-cooper[/url]

Well I bought Vestax pdx2000's on price, never really thinking I'd get to playing in clubs. Then when I did start playing in clubs I found the technics difficult to get used to. The lack of torque and stiff pitch fader make it slow to get things beat matched, and they seem to 'wander' more when you're working the platter.

So I went and bought a brand new 1200 so that i could practise on that so I'd be more comfortable in the club. And now at home I mix 1 on 1 pdx2000 vs 1200, and I've been doing this for 6 months now. I have to say the vestax shits all over the technics. They are just so strong and solid and the pitch fader so much more willing to be 'fine tuned' while trying to beat match. They skip less too. Reliablity wont be a problem, they are made of plastic for a valid reason, to avoid rumble. A respectable company like vestax isn't going to sell rubbish.

When i run my own night, i get hardcore 1200 people forced to use my pdx2000's, and one of them who has owned 1200's for years now prefers my vestax after only playing on them twice.

I've also listened carefully to the mixing of these guys while they are using the vestax, and even though they say they still prefer 1200's, the reality is that their mixing is much tighter on vestax.

A good tradesman never blames his tools, but how's one build a good house with a broken hammer?

Yes 1200's are 'club standard', but only coz they were in the game early...

So I can recommend either, but will still say vestax is better.

let the flaming commence...hehe ;-)

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UNIFY
Progressive and Trance
www.unifymelbourne.com/

"Just because you can,
Doesn't always mean you should"

We agree to disagree. Personally i found the pitch fader a little too loose on the vestax pdx2000. For me and alot of my friends, we still perfer the feel of the sl-1200s for mixing. My friend chris talked about selling his limited "blue" pdx-2000s and blue pcv-05 for a pair of regular sl-1200m3d's. It's very hard for me to hold a track beat matched together on a pdx for more than 30sec. Another thing i hate about the vestax is it's straight tonearm. That can limit your cartridge choice to only spherical styli, and it does place more wear on the vinyl, and distorts more than the traditional "s" tonearms. If you don't believe me about the tonearm than read:
http://www.kabusa.com/str8_doc.htm

The only decks i like for mixing are: sl1200, ttx-1, and possiably the st-150

The decks i like for hardcore scratching:
pdx-2000, ttx-1, str8-150, and sl-1200 if set correctly.

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quote:

Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot. He who laughs last thinks slowest!

quote:

Originally posted by dj chex It's very hard for me to hold a track beat matched together on a pdx for more than 30sec. Another thing i hate about the vestax is it's straight tonearm. That can limit your cartridge choice to only spherical styli, and it does place more wear on the vinyl, and distorts more than the traditional "s" tonearms. If you don't believe me about the tonearm than read: http://www.kabusa.com/str8_doc.htm

Hmmm interesting article, I hear what you are saying, I'm surprised about your 30 second comment, as I find long mixes much easier to hold on the vestax, and correction easier as you dont have to be so gentle on the platter.

As for vinyl wear and music distorsion, that's a worry to me as I'm a bit precious about my records.. but then this .pdf file straight from vestax says otherwise....

http://www.djsound.ru/dj/filebox/1299/pdx2000.pdf

I'd like to get to the bottom of this one....

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UNIFY
Progressive and Trance
www.unifymelbourne.com/

"Just because you can,
Doesn't always mean you should"

Im not sure. For one thing, i don't see a real difference between the design of the pdx2000 tonearm and stanton str8 tonearms. I know adjusting the height of vestax is different from stanton str8-100, but really i don't understand what vestax did to "protect" vinyl. Most of the articles i've read from audiophile sites and other articles usually state and explain why straight arms are bad for playback.

Oh and btw, that vestax ad misspelled vinyl on the 6th faq. :P

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quote:

Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot. He who laughs last thinks slowest!

quote:

Originally posted by dj chex Most of the articles i've read from audiophile sites and other articles usually state and explain why straight arms are bad for playback. Oh and btw, that vestax ad misspelled vinyl on the 6th faq. :P

hehe maybe that's their way around it. ;-)

Well you are right, the general physics makes sense, and most web sites agree that the S arm is better for wear and tracking error... so I wonder how vestax can make the claim in that article...

I think I'll be researching some more also..

___________________
UNIFY
Progressive and Trance
www.unifymelbourne.com/

"Just because you can,
Doesn't always mean you should"

quote:

Originally posted by Freak yes but its not pants- thats the whole point.

but its been the same deck for ages, yet they keep bringing out a "new" deck with the number up, for an extra 50 quid. if they are going to bring out new decks, why not put some other stuff in that its missing? unlike stuff that should have been in there from day 1 (see mk 3: ooooh a quartz motor, took them bloody long enough to sort out that one. see mk5: ooh a quartz lock button, bothered.)

but anyway, back on topic, regarding the tonearm, yes it is fact that straight arms are more nasty to your records in the long-run, but unless you scratch its not that much worse than an S tone arm. i prefer the way it sticks to the record, and you should be using shperical styli anyway if you are bothered about your records.

regarding the workings of the deck, i find i can beatmatch a lot quicker with vestax decks, namely because adjustments are easier to make and the pitch fader is looser so i can move it to where i want quicker. and yes, you can get it just as precise as with technics, just make small movements.

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MUGGETS

has anyone ever heard of the new stanton turntables that beat the technics? Its those dark blue ones. My friend just purchased those and a djm-909 I cant tell the difference except that stanton has FEATURE LOADED....makes me want to get one but there never tested for the long run and i never heard good things about stanton turntables. but then again I cant justify spendning over 500$ on those. Its a cost of a new techs Mk5Gs...