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Originally posted by BadBadNeil Cosby isn't bashing blacks, he is just speaking the truth. I'm sick of the we don't get equal treatment crap, yet they make an effort in school to not care, to be hypocritial about calling people ******s, to blame white people for their problems, to consciously not speak english correct because its "cool", to have role models in faceless people such as rappers and drug dealers, to further separate races by making every problem a race issue, to take advantage of free college because of race (which they shouldnt have in the first place), etc. I've seen lots of smart black people and know quite a few and they worked their asses off just like anyone else from another race and they got rewarded in kind. The black community needs to realize that hard work does equal success. In high school I remember the majority of dropouts and those in trouble were black and hispanic, even though in high school every student started off freshman year the same, yet they made an effort to not care and its a cycle. I've lived in Savannah, GA and believe me that city is so divided racially its scary and I honestly believe that if the poor black people in that town worked hard in school, got a scholarship to college and went to any profession they wanted they would be successful yet day after day in town all you hear is about blacks killing blacks, drugdealing, crimes, stealing from the white students in town and you could see them hanging out around town trying to act hard to impress their friends. Yes I have strong opinions on this because my family is hispanic and they worked their asses off to be successful and I've never hear them bitch once about white people holding them down. They learned, worked hard, and succeeded and that is all people need to do.

I have to agree with you, though I think you just opened an ugly can of worms. Someone is going to say that you're being racist because you're painting with broad strokes, which may be true to an extent, but one must acknowledge the distinct black culture that exists. Not the people--the culture that was largely created by them. I believe Eminem fits in there as well despite his skin color.

There are very distinct issues that Bill Cosby is referring to, and I'm glad he's speaking up because the argument is a lot more credible because the message is coming from an "insider" if you will.

It's sad that I feel more comfortable about my recent home purchase due to the fact that a lot of surrounding area is hispanic vs. black, but historically, my observations have taught me that hispanic areas tend to have harder workers while black areas tend to have more crime. I'm just calling it like I see it in my neck of the woods--not trying to offend anyone or make any personal attacks.

As someone who is black, not born in the U.S.A but consider myself American from the standpoint that I came to America at 12 years of age and am now 24, I can care less about what Bill Cosby or anyone else has to say about the black community. The subject is one of many differing conditions. Sadly many blacks are fed a culture of bullshit through Hip-Hop music for starters, younger blacks primarily. Many see the videos marketed to them and believe that they have to get Iced out, bling-blinged, drive an Escalade or Navigator, have all the phattest gear, etc. All this mind you while still living in the projects or poor communities, Go figure.

I guess it is because I wasn't born in America that I don't have the affinity to "black hip-hop culture" as much as my friends do. It is true that blacks need to improve their own lot, after all no one will do it for them, certainly not "Bush" I find it ironic that the same black culture that Bill Cosby speaks of and that I don't care too much to embrace is marketed in Germany, France, England and over all other parts of the world as a kind of in-thing among young people. This is one black who doesn't ask for anything or expect anything from anyone more than what is due to each and every American citizen. As far as I am concerned what the fuck is race.

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I applaud Cosby for standing up for his own community to try and reform it, even at the cost of losing trust with his own culture. I admit that me, as a hispanic, have been too afraid to make comments about the african american community (especially the youth) because i would be labelled as a racist for making comments. I'd always expected the final pin to be knocked down by someone like O'Reilly, who occassionaly makes a few hints every few weeks about the african american community. It's time someone looked at their own culture and admitted its faults, and to come up with solutions to save its face.

Myself, i am still too scared to stand up for my hispanic community and ask for it to be changed, that we aim higher in education and succeed better in careers. As a 17 year old in high school, i still saw many hispanics who didn't even know how to turn on a computer, yet they knew exactly the colors of each gang in their territory. The other day i went to hollywood video and the only new movie i saw dealing with hispanics was about a mexican gang defending itself in the rough streets of los angeles. Do i still have to rely on Selena, an age old movie, to promote to other cultures that deep in the hispanic community that we can stick together and succeed?

anyways, i stand behind the stregnth that cosby has for his own community.

Case and point(probably marketed by some "white" guy exploiting "black" culture)

Current CNN.com poll. Pretty surprising results, I think. Unless you assume that everyone on the internet is white.

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Is Bill Cosby justified in his recent criticism of some segments of the black community? Yes, justified 98% 149662 votes No, not justified 2% 3355 votes Total: 153017 votes

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FLUSHED THE JOHNS!

its quiet simple to state the issues with the black community.

They hate education. They truimph success by violence and fortune.
They hate success by merit.

It wasn't always like this. Hip-hop although not the cause is a symptom of their messed-up culture and is a good defining point. Previously 'black' music was Blues, Jazz, Gospel all with good points on life. Blacks worked hard to liberate themselves. But they quit once they did. I don't know why this happened. But blacks used to be the best, and hardest workers. Now they are some of the worst and laziest. I don't know why their culture changed, but I know it has. And if it has change so quick (just one generation) to something so differenet, then it should be plausible to think it can change once again in short time.

The black culture has changed from the "blues" culture - remeber the culture blacks used to have. They were always well dressed in nice fitted posh suits and beautiful hats, with wise words and kindness, (think James Bond when he was in Lousiana.. can't remember which one that was), their celebration and love of life.

Today they are the "hip-hop" culture, baggy unfitted, overgrown gangasta cloth, more bling and less brain than a man should have.

Once blacks, as Cosby voices, triumph new virtues - educaiton - hard work - proper manners and respect, they will lead to success. Right now its cool to be dumb in black culture - blacks who go to Ivy leauge, get corporate jobs, and are intelligent and productive parts of American society are considered 'sell-outs' and 'oreos' as was pointed out.

When the intelligent, successful black-man of the 'corporate world', productive, responsible, well-rounded is the image triumphed by black society - and not the gangsta I kill and rap mo betta than you image the society will correct itself.

The question is how can the black community change their heros? I don't have the answer for that. And even if I did, they wouldn't listen to me. It must come from with in their own community. They must have the desire to see their problem (admitting you have a problem is the first step...) and the desire to correct it. I believe Bill Cosby is doing this.

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I hate that we generalize with the term "hip-hop" when a lot of it stemmed from things like 'gangsta rap' and the likes of Suge Knight, Easy E, and the like. The Fat Boys were harmless rappers. I think what we see now is the legacy of guys like Tupac, Biggy Smalls, and the like.

I'd say the culture that stemmed from gangsta rap is now infecting the hip-hop culture. Guys like Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, even Cypress Hill--they work hard to put out original music with solid lyrics(most of the time) and are having their image being degraded by a culture that embraces the things that Yoepus described above. Hell, it's so easy for a rapper to go get a record deal, put out shit music and get a huge financial advance for it--it's not hard to see why the quality of the culture has degraded so much.

But give me my Q-Tip, I love that shit! Lyrics to Go, Electric Relaxation--those are classics that must remain untainted by the likes of Fiddy Cent, Busta Rhymes, Nelly, Jay-Z and the rest of those clowns.

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Originally posted by Yoepus its quiet simple to state the issues with the black community. They hate education. They truimph success by violence and fortune. They hate success by merit. It wasn't always like this. Hip-hop although not the cause is a symptom of their messed-up culture and is a good defining point. Previously 'black' music was Blues, Jazz, Gospel all with good points on life. Blacks worked hard to liberate themselves. But they quit once they did. I don't know why this happened. But blacks used to be the best, and hardest workers. Now they are some of the worst and laziest. I don't know why their culture changed, but I know it has. And if it has change so quick (just one generation) to something so differenet, then it should be plausible to think it can change once again in short time. The black culture has changed from the "blues" culture - remeber the culture blacks used to have. They were always well dressed in nice fitted posh suits and beautiful hats, with wise words and kindness, (think James Bond when he was in Lousiana.. can't remember which one that was), their celebration and love of life. Today they are the "hip-hop" culture, baggy unfitted, overgrown gangasta cloth, more bling and less brain than a man should have. Once blacks, as Cosby voices, triumph new virtues - educaiton - hard work - proper manners and respect, they will lead to success. Right now its cool to be dumb in black culture - blacks who go to Ivy leauge, get corporate jobs, and are intelligent and productive parts of American society are considered 'sell-outs' and 'oreos' as was pointed out. When the intelligent, successful black-man of the 'corporate world', productive, responsible, well-rounded is the image triumphed by black society - and not the gangsta I kill and rap mo betta than you image the society will correct itself. The question is how can the black community change their heros? I don't have the answer for that. And even if I did, they wouldn't listen to me. It must come from with in their own community. They must have the desire to see their problem (admitting you have a problem is the first step...) and the desire to correct it. I believe Bill Cosby is doing this.

probably the best post i've ever seen in Political Discussion forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus its quiet simple to state the issues with the black community. They hate education. They truimph success by violence and fortune. They hate success by merit. It wasn't always like this. Hip-hop although not the cause is a symptom of their messed-up culture and is a good defining point. Previously 'black' music was Blues, Jazz, Gospel all with good points on life. Blacks worked hard to liberate themselves. But they quit once they did. I don't know why this happened. But blacks used to be the best, and hardest workers. Now they are some of the worst and laziest. I don't know why their culture changed, but I know it has. And if it has change so quick (just one generation) to something so differenet, then it should be plausible to think it can change once again in short time. The black culture has changed from the "blues" culture - remeber the culture blacks used to have. They were always well dressed in nice fitted posh suits and beautiful hats, with wise words and kindness, (think James Bond when he was in Lousiana.. can't remember which one that was), their celebration and love of life. Today they are the "hip-hop" culture, baggy unfitted, overgrown gangasta cloth, more bling and less brain than a man should have. Once blacks, as Cosby voices, triumph new virtues - educaiton - hard work - proper manners and respect, they will lead to success. Right now its cool to be dumb in black culture - blacks who go to Ivy leauge, get corporate jobs, and are intelligent and productive parts of American society are considered 'sell-outs' and 'oreos' as was pointed out. When the intelligent, successful black-man of the 'corporate world', productive, responsible, well-rounded is the image triumphed by black society - and not the gangsta I kill and rap mo betta than you image the society will correct itself. The question is how can the black community change their heros? I don't have the answer for that. And even if I did, they wouldn't listen to me. It must come from with in their own community. They must have the desire to see their problem (admitting you have a problem is the first step...) and the desire to correct it. I believe Bill Cosby is doing this.

The only hope is that like all music Hip-hop evolves with time to a more positive footing. As I am typing this right now some guy is walking outside my window blasting some expletives from Jay-Z, I kid you not

I hear you about the old school black music though sadly Rap dominates the value system of many young blacks today, I know this for a fact being black and seeing for myself. One of my close friends got a new job, purchased a used car and put in an expensive speaker system, new flashy rims and blasted his music loud, until one day it was stolen from a hospital parking lot where he parked it.

___________________
Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

I mostly agree with Cosby and Yoepus, so I won't add much there. I am afraid, though, that it is not just the black community that is influenced by the trend, although they are affected the most. More and more people from other cultural backgrounds are embracing that "culture", which is rather worrying. I really hope it's just a stupid trend that will pass away soon.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 I really hope it's just a stupid trend that will pass away soon.

I hope so too, but I don't see it happening. It's outlived a lot of other trends and continues to grow. Who ever thought we'd see Snoop do an AOL commercial?

Though, I was happy today to see some people understand the situation. On FOX News they have a daytime show which is half a news show, and half a variety/talk show. They had a guest on - Leo Terrell - who is a black attorney and enjoys making his points by shouting at the top of his lungs and taking every remark to the end of its logical extension.

When the host of the show asked a black member of the audience to comment, she made a very cogent argument about how it's all about the family, and current black culture does little to teach children about the importance of family. So Terrell jumps in and starts ripping her for not understanding black culture and misunderstanding her own race.

The woman in the audience on the show had a better handle on things than this guy who purports to speak for the black community. It's hopeful because despite all of the racial demagoguery that goes on, this woman had obviously "figured it out." I wish there were a lot more like her.

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FLUSHED THE JOHNS!

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 I really hope it's just a stupid trend that will pass away soon.

just another stupid trend? maybe in the direction its taking today but hip hop has been alive since the 70s starting in Brooklyn, NY so its not just a "trend" its a culture

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