quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King The first suicide bombing came 28 years AFTER occupation..

whats your point?
can you prove there was no terror besides suicide bombing? sure you can't, palestinain terror against civillians was widely used already even in 1929...38 years BEFORE the occupation you talk about.

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quote:

Originally posted by Flotser whats your point? can you prove there was no terror besides suicide bombing? sure you can't, palestinain terror was widely used already even in 1929...38 years BEFORE the occupation you talk about.

lol... same with ISraeli terror!.. cant forgot those humane organizations called teh Lehi and Irgun that were led by your first prime ministers!

First terrorists... then prime ministers...

hmm.. how ironic.

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first of all if you only knew what is "irgun" in hebrew , you would knew you have some mistake some place "irgun" = "organization"
i can't remmember any organization that called him self organization "irgun" , and for my last reply i wasn't talking about suicide bombing terror the pals used terror before even the state of israel was established ... the pals terrorized the jewish farmers that was in israel before the establishment.
And now please explain me how in the hell the "lehi" organization was a terror organization and how did it harm the arabs living in israel?.

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quote:

Originally posted by Flotser whats your point? can you prove there was no terror besides suicide bombing? sure you can't, palestinain terror against civillians was widely used already even in 1929...38 years BEFORE the occupation you talk about.

What you fail to understand is that the palestinians DID NOT USE TERROR FOR 28 YEARS while they were under occupation.

You are refering to PLO attacks that were made from neighboring countries. Not about the palestinian populace within the occupied territories.

first the pals relied on other arab countries, when they failed, they relied on the PLO, when the PLO was kicked to Tunis, they took matters into their own hands and started the first intifada which had no suicide bombings.

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hey I'm warning you guys! If you're gonna keep this thread on the isra-pal conflict, I'll have to butt in here.

Let's keep it on Bush and your mothers, kapich?

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quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King What you fail to understand is that the palestinians DID NOT USE TERROR FOR 28 YEARS while they were under occupation.

that's a lie. prove it.

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There have been terrorist attacks in the 1950's and 1960's so stop fucking people's brains, cyrus.

quote:

Major Arab Terrorist Attacks against Israelis Prior to the 1967 Six-Day War Jan 1, 1952 - Seven armed terrorists attacked and killed a nineteen year-old girl in her home, in the neighborhood of Beit Yisrael, in Jerusalem. Apr 14, 1953 - Terrorists tried for the first time to infiltrate Israel by sea, but were unsuccessful. One of the boats was intercepted and the other boat escaped. June 7, 1953 - A youngster was killed and three others were wounded, in shooting attacks on residential areas in southern Jerusalem. June 9, 1953 - Terrorists attacked a farming community near Lod, and killed one of the residents. The terrorists threw hand grenades and sprayed gunfire in all directions. On the same night, another group of terrorists attacked a house in the town of Hadera. This occurred a day after Israel and Jordan signed an agreement, with UN mediation, in which Jordan undertook to prevent terrorists from crossing into Israel from Jordanian territory. June 10, 1953 - Terrorists infiltrating from Jordan destroyed a house in the farming village of Mishmar Ayalon. June 11, 1953 - Terrorists attacked a young couple in their home in Kfar Hess, and shot them to death. Sept 2, 1953 - Terrorists infiltrated from Jordan, and reached the neighborhood of Katamon, in the heart of Jerusalem. They threw hand grenades in all directions. Miraculously, no one was hurt. Mar 17, 1954 - Terrorists ambushed a bus traveling from Eilat to Tel Aviv, and opened fire at short range when the bus reached the area of Maale Akrabim in the northern Negev. In the initial ambush, the terrorists killed the driver and wounded most of the passengers. The terrorists then boarded the bus, and shot each passenger, one by one. Eleven passengers were murdered. Survivors recounted how the murderers spat on the bodies and abused them. The terrorists could clearly be traced back to the Jordanian border, some 20 km from the site of the terrorist attack. Jan 2, 1955 - Terrorists killed two hikers in the Judean Desert. Mar 24, 1955 - Terrorists threw hand grenades and opened fire on a crowd at a wedding in the farming community of Patish, in the Negev. A young woman was killed, and eighteen people were wounded in the attack. Apr 7, 1956 - A resident of Ashkelon was killed in her home, when terrorists threw three hand grenades into her house. Two members of Kibbutz Givat Chaim were killed, when terrorists opened fire on their car, on the road from Plugot Junction to Mishmar Hanegev. There were further hand grenade and shooting attacks on homes and cars, in areas such as Nitzanim and Ketziot. One person was killed and three others wounded. Apr 11, 1956 - Terrorists opened fire on a synagogue full of children and teenagers, in the farming community of Shafrir. Three children and a youth worker were killed on the spot, and five were wounded, including three seriously. Apr 29, 1956 - Egyptians killed Roi Rotenberg, 21 years of age, from Nahal Oz. Sept 12, 1956 - Terrorists killed three Druze guards at Ein Ofarim, in the Arava region. Sept 23, 1956 - Terrorists opened fire from a Jordanian position, and killed four archaeologists, and wounded sixteen others, near Kibbutz Ramat Rachel. Sept 24, 1956 - Terrorists killed a girl in the fields of the farming community of Aminadav, near Jerusalem. Oct 4, 1956 - Five Israeli workers were killed in Sdom. Oct 9, 1956 - Two workers were killed in an orchard of the youth village, Neve Hadassah, in the Sharon region. Nov 8, 1956 - Terrorists opened fire on a train, attacked cars and blew up wells, in the North and Center of Israel. Six Israelis were wounded. Feb 18, 1957 - Two civilians were killed by terrorist landmines, next to Nir Yitzhak, on the southern border of the Gaza Strip. Mar 8, 1957 - A shepherd from Kibbutz Beit Govrin was killed by terrorists in a field near the Kibbutz. Apr 16, 1957 - Terrorists infiltrated from Jordan, and killed two guards at Kibbutz Mesilot. May 20, 1957 - A terrorist opened fire on a truck in the Arava region, killing a worker. May 29, 1957 - A tractor driver was killed and two others wounded, when the vehicle struck a landmine, next to Kibbutz Kisufim. June 23, 1957 - Israelis were wounded by landmines, close to the Gaza Strip. Aug 23, 1957 - Two guards of the Israeli Mekorot water company were killed near Kibbutz Beit Govrin. Dec 21, 1957 - A member of Kibbutz Gadot was killed in the Kibbutz fields. Feb 11, 1958 - Terrorists killed a resident of Moshav Yanov who was on his way to Kfar Yona, in the Sharon area. Apr 5, 1958 - Terrorists lying in ambush shot and killed two people near Tel Lachish. Apr 22, 1958 - Jordanian soldiers shot and killed two fishermen near Aqaba. May 26, 1958 - Four Israeli police officers were killed in a Jordanian attack on Mt. Scopus, in Jerusalem. Nov 17, 1958 - Syrian terrorists killed the wife of the British air attache in Israel, who was staying at the guesthouse of the Italian Convent on the Mt. of the Beatitudes. Dec 3, 1958- A shepherd was killed at Kibbutz Gonen. In the artillery attack that followed, 31 civilians were wounded. Jan 23, 1959 - A shepherd from Kibbutz Lehavot Habashan was killed. Feb 1, 1959 - Three civilians were killed by a terrorist landmine near Moshav Zavdiel. Apr 15, 1959 - A guard was killed at Kibbutz Ramat Rahel. Apr 27, 1959 - Two hikers were shot at close range and killed near Massada. Sept 6, 1959 - Bedouin terrorists killed a paratroop reconnaissance officer near Nitzana. Sept 8, 1959 - Bedouins opened fire on an army bivouac in the Negev, killing an IDF officer, Captain Yair Peled. Oct 3, 1959 - A shepherd from Kibbutz Heftziba was killed near Kibbutz Yad Hana. Apr 26, 1960 - Terrorists killed a resident of Ashkelon south of the city. Apr 12, 1962 - Terrorists fired on an Egged bus on the way to Eilat; one passenger was wounded. Sept 30, 1962 - Two terrorists attacked an Egged bus on the way to Eilat. No one was wounded. Jan 1, 1965 - Palestinian terrorists attempted to bomb the National Water Carrier. This was the first attack carried out by the PLO's Fatah faction. May 31, 1965 - Jordanian Legionnaires fired on the neighborhood of Musrara in Jerusalem, killing two civilians and wounding four. June 1, 1965 - Terrorists attack a house in Kibbutz Yiftach. July 5, 1965 - A Fatah cell planted explosives at Mitzpe Massua, near Beit Guvrin; and on the railroad tracks to Jerusalem near Kafr Battir. Aug 26, 1965 - A waterline was sabotaged at Kibbutz Manara, in the Upper Galilee. Sept 29, 1965 - A terrorist was killed as he attempted to attack Moshav Amatzia. Nov 7, 1965 - A Fatah cell that infiltrated from Jordan blew up a house in Moshav Givat Yeshayahu, south of Beit Shemesh. The house was destroyed, but the inhabitants were miraculously unhurt. Apr 25, 1966 - Explosions placed by terrorists wounded two civilians and damaged three houses in Moshav Beit Yosef, in the Beit Shean Valley. May 16, 1966 - Two Israelis were killed when their jeep hit a terrorist landmine, north of the Sea of Galilee and south of Almagor. Tracks led into Syria. July 13, 1966 - Two soldiers and a civilian were killed near Almagor, when their truck struck a terrorist landmine. July 14, 1966 - Terrorists attacked a house in Kfar Yuval, in the North. July 19, 1966 - Terrorists infiltrated into Moshav Margaliot on the northern border and planted nine explosive charges. Oct 27, 1966 - A civilian was wounded by an explosive charge on the railroad tracks to Jerusalem.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-%20Obstacle%20to%20Peace/Palestinian%20terror%20before%202000/Which%20Came%20First-%20Terrorism%20or%20Occupation%20-%20Major

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Last edited by TranceGiant on Aug-04-2004 at 11:11

That was before the 1967 war. Again, there were no suicide attacks from the occupied territories after the 1967 war until 28 years later. That's how much the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank endured the bloody occupation.

I'm assuming the attacks you're referring to before the 1967 war were Fatah operations and Nasser's Fedayeen. There were numerous Israeli attacks during that time as well. But Palestinians in the Occupied Territories didn't use suicide bombing from 1967 to 1994. There was simply no justification for the occupation of those territories. There is no justification in occupation for any reason.

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Eh...well of course there were no suicide bombings prior to 67. Let's not forget that Suicide attacks were only "invented" in the 1980's by the ony and only Hizballah in Iran

And don't you cound 1970's/1980's PLO terrorism? Forgetting airplane highjackings, Rome, London, Vienna etc. etc...?

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quote:

That was before the 1967 war. Again, there were no suicide attacks from the occupied territories after the 1967 war until 28 years later. That's how much the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank endured the bloody occupation.

"Bloody occupation" my ass. The IDF didn't even impose curfews or stay overnight in Palestinian cities until Nov 2001, a year after this latest terror campaign started. One can make an argument that Israel should have pulled out of the territories sometime after '67, but saying they brutalized the local population in the meantime is simply dishonest. Until 1988, much of the West Bank was still under largely Jordanian administration, but Israeli military contol (at which point Jordan said "screw this" and bailed). Only 4 years later Israel was already dealing with attempting to cede control of this land for an eventual Palestinian state.

The present hardships of the Palestinians (which I won't deny) are purely a result of Israel defending itself from Palestinian terror. Crack down on the terrorist groups, and you'll find Israel eager to be out of your lives.

quote:

There is no justification in occupation for any reason.

I missed this howler the first time around. Can you think of any places in history that 1)lacked any sovereign entity, for various reasons, 2)served as potential bases for lawlessness?

Germany and Japan come to mind. Iraq pre-6.28.04 is also on the list. The West Bank and Gaza were similar; the only sovereign control pre-1967 were the occupying powers of Jordan and Egypt, respectively. The options were either to:
1. Pull out immediately and let Jordan and Egypt resume control, leaving Israel in the same strategically disadvantaged position it was in when it started.
2. Maintain control to ensure these lands weren't used as a base to attack Israel. This is the issue many Israelis have had all along with withdrawal(see footenote): Pull out, and let Arafat the terrorist run things? How is that an improvement?

footnote: post-1970 or so when Egypt and Jordan realized that they wanted nothing to do with the Palestinian population. I say this based on the attempted Black September coup in Jordan, which was much bloodier for Palestinians than Israel ever has been and no one seems to care, and the fact that Israel tried give Gaza to Egypt in the Camp David Accords in 78-79 but Egypt wouldnt' take it.

your replys shows how ignorant you are , you guys the pro pals keep saying there was no suicide bombs etc. even before the suicide attacks were invented arab/pals kept terrorizing jewish comunity all over the world. hamas started using suicide bombers only after they failed with their trys to put charges in israel and had a little succses they tought would be.i know it's hard to admit that the arab "fighetrs" are a bit ignorant ... and not only the pals , i check out the news and see how the iraqis fight against the americans they are simply dumb , if i could do something i would turn the wheel back and let the iraqis live their lifes like htey used to live every day someone else was kidnapted and killed. instead of using brain your using power.

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