quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf PVD uses a mac once in a while, but not alone

Final Scratch.

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- rabbit.joker [funny¿rabbit] | www.rabbitjoker.com |www.ddtt.org

Dark Dirty Tech Tribal. | Hands in air (trance) and feet on the floor (house).

quote:

Originally posted by Shaya007 I don't see any final scratch used here, do you?!

He could be using Ableton Live! (http://www.ableton.com).

Ableton Live is the music-production solution that allows you to spontaneously compose, record, remix, improvise and edit music.

It's a pretty interesting piece of software in that you can lay down remixes in real time by layering different sound components and such.

Considering the production and remix work Josh & Dave have done - they definitely have the repertoire to use something like Ableton Live to do a complete set.

___________________
- rabbit.joker [funny¿rabbit] | www.rabbitjoker.com |www.ddtt.org

Dark Dirty Tech Tribal. | Hands in air (trance) and feet on the floor (house).

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker He could be using Ableton Live! (http://www.ableton.com). Ableton Live is the music-production solution that allows you to spontaneously compose, record, remix, improvise and edit music. It's a pretty interesting piece of software in that you can lay down remixes in real time by layering different sound components and such. Considering the production and remix work Josh & Dave have done - they definitely have the repertoire to use something like Ableton Live to do a complete set.

Great Info...Thanks R.J

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It is time

What many fail to realize is that even though the laptop is not doing the mixing for them it still takes away some of the mystique that surrounds 'DJ' culture. Practically everyone has used a computer at some time in their lives...the same isn't true for vinyl/mixers/decks. When ppl see a DJ using a laptop they make assumptions up in their own mind as to that DJ's skill level...and all this crap about it mixing for them, etc.

Also, laying your hands upon an elusive white label or a release with a limited pressing is a great feeling...its tangible.. its yours. Once you can digitally reproduce the same thing and burn it/pass it around then it loses its value. Yes vinyl weighs a ton.. yes it is a bitch to carry... but at least you know the person behind the decks went to the trouble of getting it, and you don't have to wonder if they're just playing an mp3 they downloaded.

Some might argue that this same view came up with the introduction of CDs into DJ sets (instead of just vinyl) -- and that once time passes laptops will also become more widely accepted as a tool of the trade....but I think its different.

Basically, if you can do it with vinyl/CDs, you should do it like that, that's my 2 cents anyways.

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"In a world of illusion you only see what you feel"

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper Practically everyone has used a computer at some time in their lives...the same isn't true for vinyl/mixers/decks.

I agree with you 100% here. People think "wow, look how easy a computer makes my life - it must make it easier to DJ too"... WRONG! Matching beats AND key is a bitch...

quote:

Also, laying your hands upon an elusive white label or a release with a limited pressing is a great feeling...

White labels or test pressings are a thing of the past. The cost of making white labels and test pressings simply doesn't make sense compared to digital formats. "Promos" or "White Labels" that you get today are usually just marked as such by the label or distribution arm as a sales tactic (not because they're exclusive).

I know for a fact that there are more remixes and collaboration mixes floating around today than ever before all due to the digital revolution. DJs and producers are (privately) swapping mixes and samples that we (the fans) don't even know exist. I would go as far to say in fact that we (the fans) only get to hear 5% (at the most) of the work that is produced today; One well known DJ/producer told me that he received over 50 remixes of his production to pick from when they were looking for a b-side and that was well before any wax was cut.

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- rabbit.joker [funny¿rabbit] | www.rabbitjoker.com |www.ddtt.org

Dark Dirty Tech Tribal. | Hands in air (trance) and feet on the floor (house).

Last edited by rabbitjoker on Sep-13-2004 at 21:16

Final Scratch kicks ass I tried it and noticed no difference between real vinyl, well was quite impressed with, plus rather then spending so much money on vinyl, you can buy mp3's for a lot cheaper and play your productions like vinyl without ripping them on cds he he

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Great Music Stations: 2HP.ca Radio & etn.fm

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker We're not talking laptop mixing - we're talking DJ'ing w/ a laptop (Final Scratch). There is a difference. Mixing on a laptop (without turntables or mixers) would be a little less interesting in my opinion. Using a laptop as your record bag (a la Final Scratch) takes NOTHING away from the set. The DJ is still using vinyl (time coded mind you), turntables and a mixer.

umm where abouts here does it say finalscratch, I only see "laptop only"

quote:

I've seen this a few times now when a guest D.J shows up with nothing but a laptop and does Everything using the laptop only!!!

I ain't flaming or anything, but thats why I never brought up FS, trust me I know about FS and the others.

oh yea, well said Swamper about the Computer thing.

ABLETON ROCKS!!!

Instead of DJ's being sequencers trying to beatmatch and play linearly. A DJ can be more like a composer mixing and blending multiple sound sources on the fly.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker He could be using Ableton Live! (http://www.ableton.com). Ableton Live is the music-production solution that allows you to spontaneously compose, record, remix, improvise and edit music. It's a pretty interesting piece of software in that you can lay down remixes in real time by layering different sound components and such. Considering the production and remix work Josh & Dave have done - they definitely have the repertoire to use something like Ableton Live to do a complete set.

I'm fully aware that a laptop doesn't make it any easier for, say, Paul Van Dyk with Final Scratch over Tiesto with his CD collection, but that's really the wrong comparison to make. Gaetek mixing on 3 tables (or Carl Cox on 4) AND a laptop, or A-Trak dishing out a full 45 minutes of spliced beats without using more than a few seconds from any given record, is FAR beyond the technical level that you're going to see coming out of Final Scratch. Now I've seen Chris Liebing use software, but it was crazy-ass shit that didn't look anything like straight-up mixing, he was on it constantly (I think it functioned more as a replacement for the mixer than it did for the decks, it seemed mostly to be used for effects).

Some genres are more intellectually or emotionally based, like trance, so in that case it's pretty well accepted to use a computer program for the mixing. But other genres (i.e. techno and d'n'b) tend to revolve so much around the DJ culture and a show of technical skill that it would be a living joke if the DJ walked in with nothing but a handbag.

It's all relative. Don't anybody take my comments to mean that I have a problem with laptops. I'm only saying that they can't replace vinyl in every area.

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My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut is FAR beyond the technical level that you're going to see coming out of Final Scratch.

I don’t think people have a clear understanding of how Final Scratch works. Final Scratch simply removes the need to swap vinyl physically on and off the platter.

Final Scratch doesn’t beat match, doesn’t tell you what track goes with the next one, doesn't cue up the track, doesn’t do ANYTHING but let you lay down the audio onto a time encoded vinyl.

FYI - Carl Cox could be using Final Scratch rigs with 10 turntables if he so wanted.

Help me understand how the act of picking up a record and putting a new one on the turntable significantly increases the technical skill requirement of the DJ?

IMO – the act of swapping records requires the LEAST amount of skill – so why does one assume that without this simple act the “technical merit” of the performance is somehow less or “sub-par”.

___________________
- rabbit.joker [funny¿rabbit] | www.rabbitjoker.com |www.ddtt.org

Dark Dirty Tech Tribal. | Hands in air (trance) and feet on the floor (house).

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker I don’t think people have a clear understanding of how Final Scratch works. Final Scratch simply removes the need to swap vinyl physically on and off the platter. Final Scratch doesn’t beat match, doesn’t tell you what track goes with the next one, doesn’t do ANYTHING but let you lay down the audio onto a time encoded vinyl. FYI - Carl Cox could be using Final Scratch rigs with 10 turntables if he so wanted. Help me understand how the act of picking up a record and putting a new one on the turntable significantly increases the technical skill requirement of the DJ?

Do you honestly think it would be possible to coordinate 4 encoded records on a laptop, let alone 10? It's simply too clunky an interface, unless they come out with special peripherals specifically designed for it (who knows, maybe they have already).

Don't patronize me RJ, you've made your point already, I've seen Final Scratch used ample times and I know exactly what it does and doesn't do. I already made my point in the previous post, so I'm not going to repeat myself. You're missing my point - far from saying that a laptop makes it easier, I'm saying that it would be nearly impossible for certain DJs to do the things they do with records on a laptop.

Can you picture a turntablist like Q-Bert doing his cuts on a PC?

It kind of reminds me of the arguments I used to have about old computer games like Descent - every run-of-the-mill player would invariably use the mouse and laugh at everyone else, but the most hardcore veterans who ALWAYS won would be the ones who used the good old-fashioned joystick, because there was a certain level of precision and coordination that simply could not be reached with a mouse.

Tables are physically in front of you. If you're just beatmatching 2 slow trance tracks, sure, laptops are great, but as the complexity of the music increases more and more, it doesn't take a pro to see why a laptop would just be getting in the way.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut too clunky an interface

Drag and drop too clunky?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Don't patronize me...

Ok DJ Digi...

___________________
- rabbit.joker [funny¿rabbit] | www.rabbitjoker.com |www.ddtt.org

Dark Dirty Tech Tribal. | Hands in air (trance) and feet on the floor (house).