Phlotron:

Of course, if you're a commercial pilot, it would be wise to stay away from drugs. Notice that I didn't say that companies don't have a right to fire you if you are under the influence. But drug tests don't check if you're under the influence, they check if you have done drugs recently.



wwu.punisher:

quote:

Originally posted by wwu.punisher I can see that you're a teenager. Or in your early twenties and just a bit immature.

Wrong. I'm in my late twenties and have several degrees.

quote:

Originally posted by wwu.punisher Drugs fuck up your mind and your body. They impede your ability to work, socialize, and otherwise function like a normal human being. Period. There is no way to debate these points and come out on top.

These are bold statements to make, my friend. Did you know that alcohol is a drug? And caffeine? Nicotine? Saying all drugs are equal in effect and intensity is fallacious. Indeed, it is impossible to "debate" such a ridiculous assumption.

It seems to me like you don't have much life experience. Maybe you should join the real world, take the blinders off, and you'll see that there is very little in this world that is black and white, including the drug experience.

___________________
Life is beautiful

quote:

Originally posted by bluerose Phlotron: Of course, if you're a commercial pilot, it would be wise to stay away from drugs. Notice that I didn't say that companies don't have a right to fire you if you are under the influence. But drug tests don't check if you're under the influence, they check if you have done drugs recently.

And if those drugs are still in your system, you may still be influenced by them...or have worked during a period while under that influence. It is simply unacceptable and intollerable and a serious liability...Like I say "Gee...bummer your kids were on that bus...I know, I know...the Kinko's Manager that was in the oncoming vehicle was toked up over the weekend...but I'm 'sure' he was ok though..." ... They may have been ok to drive...or not under the influence...but the liability that they may have been under and influence or have been in the recent past (no matter how little...is grounds for big trouble. It is why they call it Zero Tollerance.

Where do you draw the line on where it is wise not to take drugs (w/in that timeframe it takes to flush from your system..even if it's weeks) to where it's "acceptable"...A different kind of transportation worker, a machine laborer...a mechanic, an engineer, a manager, a teacher a box boy, a custodian...???

Sorry, if I was an employer, I wouldn't want this [type of employee] in my environment, no matter the type of job, simply due to the liability that comes with it.

It's funny that you bring up caffiene, nicotine and alcohol as drugs as well...because you are right...they are...and they DO affect your body and can affect your performance and judgement...it's why alcohol is not allowed for periods of time before work in many places, it's why smoking is frowned upon, and does disqualify some people from certain jobs, and caffeine can have harmful side effects if taken inappropriately. They may not have equal effects or be illegal in all cases....but like any drug...some are usable and still allow you to work while others aren't allowed...There rules are there for a reason and should be followed. Even with minor substances like these based on the different industries. My industry might be the most restrictive...I can't even take sudafed...but there are restrictions all the way down to the guy that has to clean the crapper I used earlier today.


Like I say...if you want a job that doesn't have restrictions...look for one with out tests, or become self employed, but don't cry foul to any employer that has a drug testing/tollerance program.

___________________

"I'd like to buy a techno song."

Shave (wax) off your hair and use clean urine.

EDIT: Still, punisher is right about drugs. Most of them, if not all, fuck you up. Alcohol, nicotine, caffeine do it too if you "eat" enough.

___________________
TranceCritic ftw!

quote:

Originally posted by PhloTron ...unless you have a job like mine where you haul around 300 people around the skies during the day in a pressurized tube.

Man I've done coke and meth and I think I'd rather the pilot of the plane be on them than sober. Well maybe not coke because he will start thinking he is god, but I'd rather have the pilot wide awake and alert on some glass on a 24 hour flight to Asia than half asleep because he has only got a few hours rest.

Hey, if amphetamines are good enough for US Air Force pilots, they should be good enough for commercial pilots. Plus I cannot tell you how many times I have driven somewhere all night where I would have been a danger to other drivers on the road if it wasnt for the glass.

Back on topic, dude just do exactly what you did last time. If your urine has a lot of water in it again the will do one of two things:
1. Not give you the job thinking you are hiding something
2. Figure you just have watery urine and that will be that

Oh and take some vitamin B-12, it will give you the yellow color even if you are drinking a ton of water.

quote:

Originally posted by PhloTron And if those drugs are still in your system, you may still be influenced by them...or have worked during a period while under that influence. It is simply unacceptable and intollerable and a serious liability...Like I say "Gee...bummer your kids were on that bus...I know, I know...the Kinko's Manager that was in the oncoming vehicle was toked up over the weekend...but I'm 'sure' he was ok though..." ... They may have been ok to drive...or not under the influence...but the liability that they may have been under and influence or have been in the recent past (no matter how little...is grounds for big trouble. It is why they call it Zero Tollerance.

Let me clarify, I'm all for drug testing commercial pilots. I'm glad you can't take a sudafed before flight. But let me assure you, if that Kinko's manager was "toked up" over the weekend that had nothing to do with the accident that happened a couple of days later.

quote:

Originally posted by PhloTron Where do you draw the line on where it is wise not to take drugs (w/in that timeframe it takes to flush from your system..even if it's weeks) to where it's "acceptable"...A different kind of transportation worker, a machine laborer...a mechanic, an engineer, a manager, a teacher a box boy, a custodian...??? Sorry, if I was an employer, I wouldn't want this [type of employee] in my environment, no matter the type of job, simply due to the liability that comes with it.

What 'liability' is there when a janitor smokes marijuana on the weekends? Can you tell me that there is more liability than if he is hungover? Yet a drug test would fire employees that smoked marijuana occasionally, and would pass the chronic alcoholic.

quote:

Originally posted by PhloTron It's funny that you bring up caffiene, nicotine and alcohol as drugs as well...because you are right...they are...and they DO affect your body and can affect your performance and judgement...it's why alcohol is not allowed for periods of time before work in many places, it's why smoking is frowned upon, and does disqualify some people from certain jobs, and caffeine can have harmful side effects if taken inappropriately. They may not have equal effects or be illegal in all cases....but like any drug...some are usable and still allow you to work while others aren't allowed...There rules are there for a reason and should be followed. Even with minor substances like these based on the different industries. My industry might be the most restrictive...I can't even take sudafed...but there are restrictions all the way down to the guy that has to clean the crapper I used earlier today. Like I say...if you want a job that doesn't have restrictions...look for one with out tests, or become self employed, but don't cry foul to any employer that has a drug testing/tollerance program.

That's why I recommended to the original poster to not work for such an employer. It is my right to view such policies as a gross invasion of privacy, just as it is an employer's 'right' to invade my privacy. I'm certainly entitled to think that drug testing is wrong in a majority of cases. I could care less if the guy bagging my groceries was shooting heroin all weekend, or if my waitress went to a party and did e a couple of weeks ago, or if an executive smokes pot every night, because it's none of my fucking business.

___________________
Life is beautiful