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JM
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Seattle, USA

quote:
Originally posted by .montecarlo.
to clarify, what i meant was that as long as any significant amount of people have made a connection (be it true or not) between the CBS scam and the kerry campaign, the damage is already done...


great point there -

>JM<

Old Post Sep-18-2004 01:01  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
It's almost like how people "thought" that Saddam had WMD's as we were preeminently attacking a sovereign state.

you mean like the French and the Russians and the Brits and National Inteligence Estimate and Hillary and Bill and Al and John and the entire UN Security Council. your the one thats brainwashed son

Old Post Sep-18-2004 01:04  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
you mean like the French and the Russians and the Brits and National Inteligence Estimate and Hillary and Bill and Al and John and the entire UN Security Council. your the one thats brainwashed son


Maybe it was more of that "faulty" CIA intelligence that they were listening to.


quote:
Former weapons inspector: Iraq not a threat

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Former U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter told the Iraqi National Assembly on Sunday that his country, the United States, "seems to be on the verge of making a historical mistake" in its calls for ousting Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

Ritter is in Baghdad as a private citizen to voice his criticism of the U.S. threat of military action against Iraq. He looked for weapons in Iraq from 1991 until 1998, when he was called back to the United States two days before a U.S. attack on Iraq.

But a report, to be published in Britain on Monday by the International Institute of Strategic Studies, is said to detail Iraq's efforts to stockpile weapons of mass destruction.


Ritter said Sunday that Iraq was not a threat to the United States.

"Iraq is not a sponsor of the kind of terror perpetrated against the United States on September 11 and in fact is active in suppressing the sort of fundamental extremism that characterizes those who attacked the United States on that horrible day," Ritter said.


http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/09/08/ritter.iraq/


quote:
Saddam Bought Geraniums, Not Uranium
by Andy Borowitz | Jul 15 '03


In an extraordinary retraction of key elements in his last State of the Union Address, President George W. Bush revealed today that Iraqi strongman Saddam Hussein did not attempt to buy uranium in Africa, as earlier alleged, but merely geraniums. "As I was reading the speech to the nation, I should have caught that typo," the President told reporters today. "My bad."

While the news about the uranium/geranium goof stunned diplomatic circles, Bush remained resolute about his decision to go to war, arguing that buying geraniums, while not as potentially dangerous as buying uranium (...).


http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/Newsw...10032&oliID=213


Old Post Sep-18-2004 01:15  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
Maybe it was more of that "faulty" CIA intelligence that they were listening to.

see thats what i'm talking about. you have no idea how these seperate and fiercly independent inteligence agencies work.

you breed a paranoid and narrow school of thought. do you think you're more well informed than the UN security council?

what you vomitted just now is off the charts ignorant with the respect to how inteligence agencies work. i thought your grandpa was in the CIA?

Old Post Sep-18-2004 01:27  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
see thats what i'm talking about. you have no idea how these seperate and fiercly independent inteligence agencies work.

you breed a paranoid and narrow school of thought. do you think you're more well informed than the UN security council?

what you vomitted just now is off the charts ignorant with the respect to how inteligence agencies work. i thought your grandpa was in the CIA?


LOL. Dude, I feel like I'm arguing with a brick wall when I respond to you. You have to be one of the most ignorant people I've ever conversed with. Sorry for the personal attack, but your stupidity wears on me.

Old Post Sep-18-2004 02:12  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

defeatism. that must suck.

dismiss all you want. you just cant back up reckless bile like this.
quote:
Trancer-XMaybe it was more of that "faulty" CIA intelligence that they were listening to.


your brainwashed, dude.

Old Post Sep-18-2004 02:28  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
see thats what i'm talking about. you have no idea how these seperate and fiercly independent inteligence agencies work.

you breed a paranoid and narrow school of thought. do you think you're more well informed than the UN security council?

what you vomitted just now is off the charts ignorant with the respect to how inteligence agencies work. i thought your grandpa was in the CIA?


They work on lies and deception. That's the basic premise behind their jobs... clandestine intelligence gathering.

Notable CIA operatives:
Manuel Noriega
Saddam Hussein
Osama Bin Laden
Iyad Allawi, 2, 3


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...sweek032398.htm

Old Post Sep-18-2004 03:32  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala
Oh, I forgot...

Tenet: Resigning with head 'very, very high'
John McLaughlin to be next CIA chief
Friday, June 4, 2004



George Tenet talks Thursday with members of the CIA staff at the agency's headquarters about his resignation.


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- After being dogged by heavy criticism over questionable intelligence on Iraq and terrorism since the September 11, 2001 attacks, George Tenet resigned Thursday as the director of the CIA.

"I tell you about my plans to depart with sadness, but with head held very, very high," Tenet told CIA employees at the agency's Langley, Virginia, headquarters.

"And while Washington and the media will put many different faces on the decision, it was a personal decision, and had only one basis -- in fact, the well-being of my wonderful family -- nothing more and nothing less."

The first word of Tenet's resignation came from President Bush a few hours earlier when he talked to reporters after meeting with Australian Prime Minister John Howard.

Bush also announced that Deputy CIA Director John McLaughlin will become the agency's acting chief once Tenet steps down next month.

"George Tenet is the kind of public servant you like to work with," Bush told reporters at the White House.

"He's strong, he's resolute. He's served his nation as the director for seven years. He has been a strong and able leader at the agency. He's been a strong leader in the war on terror, and I will miss him.

The announcement seemed to take much of Washington by surprise. House Speaker Dennis Hastert and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi both said they had no advance notice of Tenet's departure.

Tenet said his resignation will be effective July 11 -- the seventh anniversary of his 1997 appointment by then-President Bill Clinton.

During Tenet's time in office, he led the CIA through the 1999 conflict in Kosovo, the al Qaeda terror attacks on New York, Virginia and rural Pennsylvania, and the wars in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Tenet has enjoyed a lifetime of public service

In his remarks to employees, he praised the agency's "magnificent work" -- but he added, "Our record is not without flaws."

"The world of intelligence is a uniquely human endeavor, and as in all human endeavors we all understand the need to always do better," Tenet said. "We are not perfect, but one of our best-kept secrets is that we are very, very, very good."

Another key CIA official, James Pavitt -- the CIA's deputy director of operations who oversees all covert operations -- plans to announce his resignation Friday, U.S. sources told CNN Thursday.

The sources said Pavitt's resignation is "entirely unrelated" to Tenet's -- that Pavitt's plan to resign has been in the works for three to four weeks.

Pavitt, who has spent 30 years in the intelligence business, including the last five years as the CIA's deputy director of operations, testified before the 9/11 commission in mid-April. It marked the first time in the agency's history that someone of his position testified publicly.

'He's being pushed out or made a scapegoat'
Tenet has faced sharp criticism over the September 11 terror attacks and the war in Iraq, where pre-invasion U.S. estimates that Iraq was amassing stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction now appear to have been incorrect.

Several key lawmakers -- including Sen. John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee -- have called for his resignation, and coming reports are expected to call for sweeping changes in the intelligence community.

Kerry released a statement saying he wished Tenet "the very best," but said the Bush administration has to take responsibility for "significant intelligence failures."

"Sometimes with change comes opportunity," Kerry said. "This is an opportunity for the president to lead. As I've said for some time, we must reshape our intelligence community for the 21st century and create a new position of director of national intelligence with real control of all intelligence personnel and budgets."

Sen. Richard Shelby, a former Intelligence Committee chairman, said Tenet's decision to step down as director of central intelligence was "long overdue."

"There were more failures of intelligence on his watch as director of the CIA than any other [director of Central Intelligence] in our history," Shelby, R-Alabama, said in a written statement. "I have long felt that, while an honorable man, he lacked the critical leadership necessary for our intelligence community to effectively operate, particularly in the post-9/11 world."

But the current chairman and the ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee issued a joint statement praising Tenet, saying he "provided much-needed stability and leadership to an agency that was largely adrift."

"While he steps down during a period of controversy over events leading up to the attacks of 9/11 and the quality of intelligence prior to the Iraq war, we should not lose sight of a simple truth: George Tenet has served his country with distinction and honor during difficult and demanding times," said Sens. Pat Roberts, R-Kansas, and Jay Rockefeller, D-West Virginia.

And Hastert, R-Illinois, said Tenet "always did his best to defend this nation against terrorists and those states that support them."

"Mr. Tenet had a monumental task to rebuild human intelligence-gathering capabilities devastated by eight years of liberal Clinton administration policies," Hastert said.

Bush made the Tenet announcement before boarding Marine One for a flight to Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland.

He is on his way to Europe, where he will attend ceremonies marking the 60th anniversary of the D-Day invasion in World War II. (Bush leaves for European trip)

A White House official said Bush would have liked Tenet to stay on, and denied that his departure was "worked out beforehand" or "engineered."

"Tenet told Bush he wanted to leave for personal reasons, and once he said that, Bush said he respected that," the official said.

But former CIA Director Stansfield Turner said the timing of Tenet's resignation -- just five months before the presidential election -- cast doubt on the explanation that it was a personal decision.

"I think he's being pushed out or made a scapegoat," said Turner, who led the CIA during the Carter administration. "That is, that the president feels he's got to have somebody to blame, and he's doing it indirectly by asking Tenet to leave. ... I don't think he would pull the plug on President Bush in the middle of an election cycle without having been asked by the president to do that."

Rep. Porter Goss, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said of Tenet: "Boatloads of stuff have been dumped on him by all kinds of people," but "I don't think you can fault the man."

Tenet's standing ovation
"This is the most difficult decision I have ever had to make," Tenet told CIA employees.

Tenet's remarks won a lengthy standing ovation from agency workers in what one source described as a "rock concert" atmosphere. Tenet has been popular among the agency's rank-and-file, and his speech was interrupted by frequent applause.

Introducing his boss, an emotional McLaughlin told CIA staff that "It's a hard day for all of us."

Tenet said he is stepping down in part to spend more time with his son.

"I'm going to be a senior with him in high school," Tenet said. "We're going to go to class together. We're going to party together. I'm going to learn how to instant message his friends -- that would be an achievement."

Tenet praised his agency's "magnificent work" in the battle against al Qaeda, its support for U.S. troops in Iraq, and its successes against drug traffic and weapons proliferation.

But he added, "Our record is not without flaws."

"The world of intelligence is a uniquely human endeavor, and as in all human endeavors we all understand the need to always do better," Tenet said.

Pelosi said her confidence in Tenet's judgment had never wavered, even though the CIA chief was in a "very difficult situation."

"I think there are many more people who are responsible for the mess that the Bush administration has gotten us into," she told reporters. "But if Mr. Tenet thinks there should be a change of leadership at the Central Intelligence Agency -- for whatever reason, including taking one for the administration -- then so be it."

Recent testimony

Tenet sits behind Secretary of State Colin Powell during the secretary's testimony to the U.N. Security Council about Iraq.
In April, the panel investigating the September 11 attacks criticized the intelligence community and faulted Tenet for not having a management strategy to battle terrorism before the 9/11 attacks.

Tenet told the panel that enormous progress had been made since the attacks, but said that the intelligence community would need "another five years to have the kind of clandestine service our country needs." (9/11 commission faults U.S. intelligence)

In February, Tenet defended his agency's prewar assessment of Iraq's military capabilities and denied allegations that the intelligence community overplayed the potential threat that Saddam Hussein had chemical or biological weapons. (Tenet defends prewar judgment on Iraq)

"[The CIA] painted an objective assessment for our policy-makers of a brutal dictator who was continuing his efforts to deceive and build programs that might constantly surprise us and threaten our interests," Tenet said in a speech at Georgetown University.

The supposed threat of large Iraqi stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction was the primary justification for the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

So far, only a few artillery shells believed to contain sarin and mustard gas have been recovered.

Tenet took responsibility for a later-discredited line in Bush's 2003 State of the Union address that alleged that Iraq was trying to buy uranium from Africa, saying the CIA had seen and approved the speech before it was delivered, and he took responsibility for the mistake.

The uranium claim was investigated by former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who said he told the CIA the report appeared unsubstantiated.

After Wilson went public with his account last year, his wife's identity as a covert CIA operative specializing in weapons of mass destruction was leaked to columnist and CNN commentator Robert Novak. That disclosure is now the subject of a criminal investigation.

In journalist Bob Woodward's recent book, "Plan of Attack," Tenet is quoted telling Bush that intelligence supporting Iraq's weapons programs was a "slam-dunk." (Woodward: Tenet told Bush WMD case a 'slam dunk')

And Tenet sat behind Secretary of State Colin Powell during the secretary's February 2003 presentation to the U.N. Security Council, in which the United States accused Iraq of violating numerous U.N. resolutions requiring its disarmament.

Powell said last month that the sources of his allegations were "inaccurate and wrong and, in some cases, deliberately misleading. And for that I am disappointed, and I regret it."

Ahmed Chalabi, the one-time U.S. ally whose Iraqi National Congress has been accused of providing some of that inaccurate intelligence, blamed Tenet for providing "erroneous information" about Iraq's suspected weapons programs. (Full story)

Chalabi is under investigation for fraud and is suspected of passing U.S. intelligence secrets to Iran, but he says Tenet led a "smear campaign" against him.


CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux and producers Ted Barrett and Henry Schuster contributed to this report.





http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/03/tenet.resigns

Old Post Sep-18-2004 03:40  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
They work on lies and deception. That's the basic premise behind their jobs... clandestine intelligence gathering.

Notable CIA operatives:
Manuel Noriega
Saddam Hussein
Osama Bin Laden
Iyad Allawi, 2, 3


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...sweek032398.htm

this post looks like a vague attempt at redirection.

at the risk of hijacking this thread much longer. i'll respond by saying that you have correctly described one basic premise. however fighting the Russians and the Iranians have little to do with Foriegn Inelligence Estimates and their validity or accuracy or lack thereof.

Old Post Sep-18-2004 03:49  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala



quote:
Sophia Parlock, 3, cries while seated on the shoulders of her father, Phil Parlock, a supporter of President Bush, after a Bush-Cheney sign she and her father were holding was torn up by another person standing in the crowd that had gathered to greet Democratic vice presidential nominee John Edwards, in a file photo from Thursday, Sept. 16, 2004, in Huntington, W.Va. At right, is Alex Parlock, 11, Sophia's brother. Several supporters of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry have since suggested the whole incident was staged, and that the sign had been grabbed by one of Parlock's other children. Internet messages urged supporters to flood the media with complaints, pointing out that Parlock has been involved in similar incidents in 1996 and 2000. (AP Photo/Randy Snyder, File)

Old Post Sep-18-2004 07:03  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

if this is true, which looks pretty convincing, its way effed up.

Old Post Sep-18-2004 07:20  United States
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LiquidX
It's All OvA!



Registered: Mar 2001
Location: In Ur Mind

HeH.. I was listening to this morning show this morning, and a caller called the show, talking about how a democrat ripped off the sign of a republican supporter, Parlock. I just e-mailed the show to clarify the caller, and this to be discussed on tomorrow's show heh.

IF anyone interested on sending and e-mail as well, let me know ;-).


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Old Post Sep-22-2004 19:53  Chile
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Scamming the Media - Idiot Bush supporter exposed
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