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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Does anyone know the real story out of Iraq
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Dervish
Your opinion matters.



Registered: Dec 2003
Location:

Exactly what I was thinking that it's more for the check (understandable I suppose in the climate there).

I know there has been atleast one case of american forces acidently killing Iraqi Police but I'm more worried if it happens the other way even if it's some form of tactic used by anti-american forces i.e. not actually iraqi police.

But like you say atleast a few of them(I'm being nice and not saying most) don't exactly seem to be taking the jobs for the best of resons or following up on their duty. Which is frankly scary. Because a civilised nation needs a security force which is based upon sound ideals(or atleast self policed to follow sound ideals), not a need for money(leading to corruption) or power(leading to corruption at best, dictatorships and civil war at worst).


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Old Post Sep-21-2004 01:38 
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.montecarlo.
. i n v o l v e r .



Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Vancouver, BC Former SN: InsomnEac

here's a summary of iraq from a different perspective...



Iraq: How bad can things get?

By Paul Wood
BBC Middle East correspondent, Basra


Just how bad are things in Iraq? Since just last week it has seen hundreds of deaths, suicide bombings, beheadings, yet more people kidnapped.
When I visited Basra exactly one year ago it was safe enough to stay in town on our own.

This time, we wouldn't dream of doing that. The chances of being kidnapped are too great.


It's true there have been some real, solid achievements over the past year.
There aren't petrol queues, or petrol riots, in Basra any more.

The electricity is on for longer. And oil exports from the south are up to 2.9 million barrels a day.

But here are some other statistics. Last month, the British Army fired 100,000 rounds of ammunition in southern Iraq.

The base in al-Ammara sustained more than 400 direct mortar hits.

The British battalion there counted some 853 separate attacks of different kinds: mortars, roadside bombs, rockets and machine-gun fire.

No British regiment has had such intense "contact", as they call it, since Korea.

Fury over Najaf

A year ago, the British Army was still congratulating itself on running one of the more peaceful parts of Iraq.


It seems sometimes UK troops are gingerly walking on the thin crust of a volcano, wondering how much pressure is building below


If you'd predicted all this, it would have been dismissed as doom-mongering.
British officers characterise the fighting in August as merely a spike in the violence.

They say quite rightly that the trouble had a particular cause.

The Americans were battling Shia gunmen loyal to the radical cleric Moqtada Sadr in Najaf.


The fury spilled over into Basra and al-Ammara.
The anger was fuelled by the widespread belief that US-led forces were attacking the two holy shrines in Najaf.

At the height of the crisis, a leading Shia figure in Basra told a British Brigadier: "There are lots of moderates here who support you. But if the shrines are touched, I'll kill you myself."

Uprising fears

Eventually a peace deal in Najaf brought peace to the rest of the south too.

Since the shrines were not touched, only about 400 hard-core gunmen joined the fight against the multi-national forces in Basra.

Still, in an area which is 99% Shia, the great danger for the British is of a general uprising.


It sometimes seems as if the troops are gingerly walking on the thin crust of a volcano, wondering how much pressure is building below.
The British - with tanks, air support and thousands of soldiers - say they could have destroyed the small militia force attacking them.

But they were asked by local people not to turn Basra into a war zone.

And because they didn't, the majority still welcomes them here.

Grateful for security

We went on a British patrol in the dead of night to stop and search vehicles on the road from al-Ammara to Basra.


None of Basra's 25,000 police officers came to the aid of the British soldiers in the August fighting. Some even helped the gunmen


At our checkpoint, drivers were made to get out and show their ID cards while soldiers looked under the seats and in the boot for illegal weapons.
Not one of the drivers or passengers expressed any resentment at this.

One explained that hostage-taking was especially bad on that stretch of road.

The gangs usually kidnap a driver, his lorry and its cargo, he said, and ransom the whole lot back to the company concerned.

Many drivers are killed. It's no surprise then that people are glad of the British presence.

Vicious intimidation

The problem is that very few people are actively supporting the fight against the militants.


A vicious campaign of intimidation doesn't help matters.
Last month, five cleaning ladies at a British base were murdered on their way to work.

Two local translators disappeared. Their severed heads were found outside the front gate.

But perhaps the most worrying development of the August fighting was that none of Basra's 25,000 police officers came to the aid of the British soldiers. Some even helped the gunmen.

I met one of the senior civilian political advisors to the military command.

Every time he came to Basra things seemed a "step change worse", he said.

The best thing to happen, he went on, would be for a new Islamic government to be elected in January which would ask multi-national forces to leave.

I don't think he was being facetious.

Exit strategy

Elections do form part of the exit strategy, but not in this way.

The hope is that national elections in January will produce a government with the authority and the legitimacy to face down the gunmen on its own.

But in local elections in the British sector this week, turnout was just 15%.

A government election with that much backing would be just one faction in the civil war which some American intelligence officials believe is brewing.

That is very much the worst case. But whatever happens, British officers no longer have any illusions that the southern corner of Iraq they run will be immune from the violence.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/...ent/3675538.stm

Published: 2004/09/21 09:08:39 GMT

© BBC MMIV

Old Post Sep-21-2004 17:03  Canada
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NYCTrancefan
Destination Everywhere!



Registered: Jul 2003
Location: New York City in a Café del Mar mood

It all comes back to the fact that there was a serious underestimation of the Middle East and the lack of plans for dealing with the aftermath of Saddam Hussein. Its perfectly fine to get rid of Hussein, the man was a brute in many forms, but be prepared to handle the situation afterwards in someway. This is not what Iraq should have been. Every terrorist cut throat now has a purpose in Iraq, along with the Iraqis who simply don't want the U.S. there, it will be a long battle indeed.


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Old Post Sep-21-2004 17:14  United States
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smokeape
Lowland Trance Addict



Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Heart of Dixie

A long battle indeed, and we need to stay the course. Withdrawing now would create absolute anarchy. Our modern view doesn't condone leveling villages or towns where terrorists hang out. Too bad, we have to use smart bombs instead. The smart bombs hit their targets, but unfortunately with about 2K of explosives next door neighbor Habib and his kids are subjects to collateral damage. The best thing for Habib to do is to keep those types out of his neighborhood. And particularly those who drive up in front of his house and start lobbing mortars at an American compound like there's no tomorrow and like there won't be counterfire to follow.


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Old Post Sep-22-2004 01:16 
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