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Originally posted by Yoepus no, its all because a few soldiers put Iraqis in pyrmaids! The humanity! At least there is a major world outcry over these beheadings too

Sarcasm may be dripping in your statements but try this one on for size it is becuase the United States along with the "Iraqi Security Forces" has failed to provide a secure and stable environment in which people who commit such beastly acts cannot function, how's that one

World outcry won't mean jack since these people are barbarians as has been described by many on this board. Instead Zarqawi is prancing around Iraq like a farm girl at the local State fair, sipping on lemonade and cutting off heads while we put forth empty statements about who and what he is and how he needs to be stopped, while innocent people continue to die. I can care less if it is George Bush's fault or not, there is a job to be done and it is not being done in Iraq after all these months, who's fault is that might I ask.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan World outcry won't mean jack since these people are barbarians as has been described by many on this board. Instead Zarqawi is prancing around Iraq like a farm girl at the local State fair, sipping on lemonade and cutting off heads while we put forth empty statements about who and what he is and how he needs to be stopped, while innocent people continue to die. I can care less if it is George Bush's fault or not, there is a job to be done and it is not being done in Iraq after all these months, who's fault is that might I ask.

Right, so if it is necessary to kill hundreds of innocent Iraqi civilians which Zarqawi hides himself amoung, you are all for that?

Ok great. Lets drop a few bombs, finish the deal.

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Right, so if it is necessary to kill hundreds of innocent Iraqi civilians which Zarqawi hides himself amoung, you are all for that? Ok great. Lets drop a few bombs, finish the deal.

Therein lies the problem, it is not my job to solve the mess in Iraq, it is the current administration and the policies that they implemented and are implementing. George W.Bush stated before they went into Iraq that they had a plan, is what is happening in Iraq today the plan?

___________________
Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Therein lies the problem, it is not my job to solve the mess in Iraq,

No, but you've almost made a career out of complaining about it while offering no viable alternatives.

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It is the current administration and the policies that they implemented and are implementing. George W.Bush stated before they went into Iraq that they had a plan, is what is happening in Iraq today the plan?

Yeah, this guy keeps opening his mouth. Why would he have more of a clue than you about what's going on over there?

quote:

"Elections will occur in Iraq on time in January because Iraqis want elections on time," Allawi told the joint meeting of Congress. Despite struggles and setbacks, "the values of liberty and democracy" are taking hold in Iraq, Allawi said. "We could hold elections tomorrow" in 15 of 18 provinces, he said, even though terror operatives hope to disrupt them. "The insurgency in Iraq is destructive but small, and it has not and will never resonate with the Iraqi people," Allawi said. He also said ordinary Iraqis are "anxious" to take over entirely the "security burdens" of the country "as quickly as possible." He cautioned, however, that the election may not come off perfectly. But he assured it will be free and fair, "a giant step" in Iraq's political evolution. After his address, Allawi was heading to the White House for a meeting with President Bush, where the two leaders were to hold a press conference in the White House Rose Garden on the progress that is being made in Iraq and future prospects. An assessment of Iraq's future put together recently by U.S. intelligence officials spoke of possibilities ranging from tenuous stability to civil war, and even some senators in Bush's Republican Party have said there is a need for more candid talk from the White House. (END) Dow Jones Newswires 09-23-04 1056ET- - 10 56 AM EDT 09-23-04

Only 15 of 18 provinces could hold elections TOMORROW??? You call that PROGRESS?!?! Quick, somebody give this guy a reality pill--NY Trancefan says there's nothing positive and zero progress being made.

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Originally posted by Shakka No, but you've almost made a career out of complaining about it while offering no viable alternatives. Yeah, this guy keeps opening his mouth. Why would he have more of a clue than you about what's going on over there? Only 15 of 18 provinces could hold elections TOMORROW??? You call that PROGRESS?!?! Quick, somebody give this guy a reality pill--NY Trancefan says there's nothing positive and zero progress being made.

Have you been to Iraq, do you know what is happening in Iraq, do you take the time to research and read other medias from around the world about what is happening in that country, you don't even have on a pair of rose colored glasses its a pair of military issued rose colored night vision binoculars frankly. I know it may be hard for you to keep hearing about how pathetic the security is in Iraq when journalists, aid workers, civilan workers are being kidnapped and there lives hang in a balance. Excuse me if these situations to me do not represent a sign of progress and stability in a nation that we invaded.

A career out of complaining is what you brandish me as doing, yet you cannot answer my question should one American life be lost for the freedom of Iraqis, I'm still waiting for that answer. Contrary to how you may like to portray it everything isn't all fine and dandy in Iraq and that is a fact.

P.S. there are incidents over in Iraq involving regular Iraqi civilians that we don't even hear about over here in America, it isn't just Westerners that the violence is affectiing, its only what makes the news. You hear about Iraqi civilians only when tens of Iraqis die in a carbombing. Progress you speak about, I wonder if you would go to Iraq and live in that progress Shakka

___________________
Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

Last edited by NYCTrancefan on Sep-23-2004 at 15:46

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Have you been to Iraq, do you know what is happening in Iraq,

Uhm, have you? If you have, then I'll let you enlighten me, but if you haven't then don't pull some holier-than-though bullshit--what makes your lack of perspective any more accurate than my lack of perspective???

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I know it may be hard for you to keep hearing about how pathetic the security is in Iraq when journalists, aid workers, civilan workers are being kidnapped and there lives hang in a balance. Excuse me if these situations to me do not represent a sign of progress and stability in a nation that we invaded.

It's a warzone. What the fuck do you expect? This is still one of the shortest major combat operations in the history of the U.S. military. Have some confidence and show a little pride in your country actually doing something positive. Nobody said it was going to be peaches & cream--and if you did, then it's you who are dillusional. There will be many more challenges, and things are likely to get much worse before they get much better. Most realists have accepted that and still want to complete this arduous task.

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A career out of complaining is what you brandish me as doing, yet you cannot answer my question should one American life be lost for the freedom of Iraqis, I'm still waiting for that answer.

Yes. There's your answer. If there are 1,000 people who are willing to make the sacrifice to make a better world for 30 million people, the answer is obvious.

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Contrary to how you may like to portray it everything isn't all fine and dandy in Iraq and that is a fact.

Well no fuckin' shit, Sherlock. I never claimed it to be fine and dandy, I am merely pointing out that there is a lot more positive going on over there than you are willing to admit. I'll bet that if conditions were exactly as they are now and there had been more ample stashes of WMDs found at this point, you'd be cheering. However, since you feel you were lied to, anything short of Eden in Iraq is unacceptable to you.

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Progress you speak about, I wonder if you would go to Iraq and live in that progress Shakka

I love it. This is always the ultimate cop-out. "If you think it's so great, why don't you go over there. Wahhhhh.

You know, I really gave a serious thought to joining the military back when I was in school. I ultimately decided that I wanted to work in the private sector. My right of self-determination that I enjoy in a country I am very proud to live in, gave me that choice for which I will never feel any guilt--because it was my choice with no strings attached. You see, I love this country and what it stands for. I don't have to go to Iraq to prove that, but I am thankful every day for the people that made their own choice to volunteer to defend freedom and liberty, because that's what they chose to do. How many Iraqis ever had that choice? Why do you feel that they should be so deprived? Do you think you're better than them?

Oh, come on, it's not that bad. I'd take it over cancer in two seconds.

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Originally posted by Shakka Uhm, have you? If you have, then I'll let you enlighten me, but if you haven't then don't pull some holier-than-though bullshit--what makes your lack of perspective any more accurate than my lack of perspective??? It's a warzone. What the fuck do you expect? This is still one of the shortest major combat operations in the history of the U.S. military. Have some confidence and show a little pride in your country actually doing something positive. Nobody said it was going to be peaches & cream--and if you did, then it's you who are dillusional. There will be many more challenges, and things are likely to get much worse before they get much better. Most realists have accepted that and still want to complete this arduous task. Yes. There's your answer. If there are 1,000 people who are willing to make the sacrifice to make a better world for 30 million people, the answer is obvious. Well no fuckin' shit, Sherlock. I never claimed it to be fine and dandy, I am merely pointing out that there is a lot more positive going on over there than you are willing to admit. I'll bet that if conditions were exactly as they are now and there had been more ample stashes of WMDs found at this point, you'd be cheering. However, since you feel you were lied to, anything short of Eden in Iraq is unacceptable to you. I love it. This is always the ultimate cop-out. "If you think it's so great, why don't you go over there. Wahhhhh. You know, I really gave a serious thought to joining the military back when I was in school. I ultimately decided that I wanted to work in the private sector. My right of self-determination that I enjoy in a country I am very proud to live in, gave me that choice for which I will never feel any guilt--because it was my choice with no strings attached. You see, I love this country and what it stands for. I don't have to go to Iraq to prove that, but I am thankful every day for the people that made their own choice to volunteer to defend freedom and liberty, because that's what they chose to do. How many Iraqis ever had that choice? Why do you feel that they should be so deprived? Do you think you're better than them?

Your response to my statements is to use explitives and question my allegiance to this nation, questioning patriotism is a lackluster and weak argument. I do not have to defend my Americanism to you or anyone. You choose not to join the military but feel it is okay for 1000+ U.S lives to be sacrificed for Iraqi freedoms. I am aware you are proud of America, so am I what is your point. I don't engage in blind patriotism but choose to think about issues globally.

Ironically when I was speaking about altruism the other day you lay claim to not feeling you should have to sacrifice yourself for anyone, but see your statement above in regards to U.S. troops, hypocracy exemplified. When 18, 19 and 20 year olds are dying for reasons that are escaping me, you feel it is okay.

I don't believe that I am superior to anyone and if you look at my opinions on this board in regards to others you would recognize that instead of drawing baseless assertions about my makeup. Explitives, questioning of allegiance to America and a hypocritical notion of our purpose in Iraq shows extreme shortsightedness on your part about Iraq.

My sources for news include Radio Netherlands, Reuters, CBC, RAI International, Journal de Noticias, NRK Forsida, Deutsche Welle, they must all be a pack of liars though as to what is happening in Iraq. Whether or not there is progress in Iraq does not remove the violence that exists everyday in that nation and until that ceases you are preaching to a choir about progress.

___________________
Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

Last edited by NYCTrancefan on Sep-23-2004 at 17:38

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Ironically when I was speaking about altruism the other day you lay claim to not feeling you should have to sacrifice yourself for anyone, but see your statement above in regards to U.S. troops, hypocracy exemplified. When 18, 19 and 20 year olds are dying for reasons that are escaping me, you feel it is okay.

No. Because they chose that path for themselves, under their own volition. I chose a different path. What's the hypocracy of which you speak? They chose honor and service to their country and they are proud of what they are doing. I chose to support the effort by paying thousands of dollars in taxes, and I'm proud of what I do. The worst killer of all is a defeatist negative attitude.

On a side note, I just finished having an IM conversation with a very close friend who is stationed in Baghdad as we speak. He appreciates my support and is proud of what he is doing over there.

I apologize for any name-calling, however expletives don't offend me and I use them quite frequently--not just in your case.

Last edited by Shakka on Sep-23-2004 at 18:04

I like how you use kidnapping and terrorism as proof that the USA is failing. Look, if in the USA today there were 2000 animals with no respect of laws or morality, you would see a lot worse things happen on a daily basis here - with all our law enforcement and military - until every single one of them was hunted down and dead.

It's not hard to kidnap people, and its not hard to do terror. The only antidote to terrorism is a brutal dictatorial regiem.

I'd rather suffer terror with liberty than no terror with no liberty.

Would you?

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I like how you use kidnapping and terrorism as proof that the USA is failing. Look, if in the USA today there were 2000 animals with no respect of laws or morality, you would see a lot worse things happen on a daily basis here - with all our law enforcement and military - until every single one of them was hunted down and dead. It's not hard to kidnap people, and its not hard to do terror. The only antidote to terrorism is a brutal dictatorial regiem. I'd rather suffer terror with liberty than no terror with no liberty. Would you?

The president declared a War on Terror, up to today he exclaimed Iraq is the central front in the War on Terror, therefore he can only be judged on what takes place in that central front it would dictate. I wonder how this War on Terror in Iraq(wonder who made it that way) can be won based on the current path that we are on in Iraq.

Common sense would dictate that these slimeballs live in nations all over the world not just Iraq, Afghanistan, Indonesia, thereby unless you are willing to respect others, deal with nations as partners and not followers and you give them a stake in the concept of collective security then America will be fighting this conflict with Great Britain as our only major, influential ally and maybe Italy when it comes to Iraq. Bush diplomacy has rubbed many nations the wrong way and they will not cooperate in a capacity that is deeply committed to dealing with the issue of terror and certainly Iraq.

Bush now must deal with the consequences of his Central Front on the War on Terror in Iraq as he has called it. A serious re-examination of the policy in Iraq is needed and Bush seems to be a one track record that doesn't recognize his faulty strategy.

___________________
Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

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Originally posted by smokeape I'll just quote my other thread. Turn over Al-Zarquawi tomorrow or we chop off the head of Saddam Hussein!! BWAHHAHHAHAHAAAA!!!! We got some high viz guys in the old regime ready for the chopping block as well. Hell, the new Iraqi government can make it a reality. [[[smoke]]]

So you share the same ignorant tit-for-tat mentality that they do?

What a joke.