that t-shirt is fuken fuked up! i kno only this country/US could think of making something like that! disturbing man..and im sure thats not the worst shirt they got..

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quote:

Originally posted by EvilDust yeah, most likely...but opinions like zundel's can be the spark that ignites them to violate other people's right to live. Yes, people really need to be educated but that's easier said than done. Until then, hate propaganda should be censored.

Ok, well here is an example.

what if i commit a crime against you. right now i dont know the colour of your skin because you are behind a computer. But i go ahead and commit a crime against you for whatever reason. Now it turns out you are a religious or ethnic minority and im a white guy. What this law says is in effect that i committed this crime against you BECAUSE you are whatever race you happen to be. Whats more is that i have yet to hear of this law being applied in the reverse. Meanwhile we all know that hate is a two-way street. Why isn't louis farakahn in jail for his hatred of whites and jews?

Censoring thought through law is exactly what the regimes of hitler and stalin etc did in the past. This is why we fought in wars to keep our country free. Freedom of thought and freedom of religion should ALWAYS be respected. If someone is driven to a crime based on what they read on a website then they should be prosecuted for the crime just as if they had been influenced by their friend, the tv some dellusion they had etc. In the end it is the person perpetrating the crime who is at fault, not some guy who denied the holocaust on a website.

Let's turn the tables. Imagine if the government now told you that beleiving that jews were equal was illegal because the official line from the government is that they arent. Even though you truely believe that they are the government says that its fiction and thus you may not state your belief or risk jail (or worse). This is exactly what the Nazis did in WW2.

Freedom of speech must provide for all ideas to be expressed freely regardless of what the majority thinks. Again, i find Zundel's thinking disgusting as I do this Tshirt, but what's even more disgusting is the call to ban this expression in a supposed free society. If you don't like the message, don't listen. Those who listen are already predisposed to this type of thought anyways.

quote:

Originally posted by bass drive what other alternative do you have? the only alternative I can think of is "fear of God" or religion, but we all know that's history

The alternative is prosecuting crimes under the existing criminal code. Let people say all they want. If it becomes harrasment we have laws for that.

quote:

Originally posted by nycionx that t-shirt is fuken fuked up! i kno only this country/US could think of making something like that! disturbing man..and im sure thats not the worst shirt they got..

Only in Canada/US would this make top story on the 6 oclock news

ahhhh, another example of a woman meddling and
making a big deal of nothing.
let alone the fact ITS NONE OF HER BUSINESS

quote:

Originally posted by EvilDust yeah, most likely...but opinions like zundel's can be the spark that ignites them to violate other people's right to live. Yes, people really need to be educated but that's easier said than done. Until then, hate propaganda should be censored.

AND JUST HOW DO YOU KNOW ITS 'PROPAGANDA'? THINK ABOUT THAT ONE FOOL. LOL. YOU CAN'T. CAUSE YOUR A SHEEP. PATHETIC.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Ok, well here is an example. what if i commit a crime against you. right now i dont know the colour of your skin because you are behind a computer. But i go ahead and commit a crime against you for whatever reason. Now it turns out you are a religious or ethnic minority and im a white guy. What this law says is in effect that i committed this crime against you BECAUSE you are whatever race you happen to be. Whats more is that i have yet to hear of this law being applied in the reverse. Meanwhile we all know that hate is a two-way street. Why isn't louis farakahn in jail for his hatred of whites and jews?

That should depend on your intent and knowledge. If you never knew what my ethnic background is, then why would the justice system say you were driven to do it because of that? You'd have to have a horrible lawyer if you get labeled as racist from that.

I don't know what Farakhan has been saying, but if he is advocating the killing of whites and jews because of their race, then yes, he should be in jail.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Censoring thought through law is exactly what the regimes of hitler and stalin etc did in the past. This is why we fought in wars to keep our country free. Freedom of thought and freedom of religion should ALWAYS be respected. If someone is driven to a crime based on what they read on a website then they should be prosecuted for the crime just as if they had been influenced by their friend, the tv some dellusion they had etc. In the end it is the person perpetrating the crime who is at fault, not some guy who denied the holocaust on a website.

Freedom of religion should ALWAYS be respected exactly. A guy that influences the masses to kill Jews is clearly violating this, don't you think? Like I said, I don't know what he said (I'll research that later, no time right now) but if all he was doing is denying the holocaust, then he was wrongly punished.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Let's turn the tables. Imagine if the government now told you that beleiving that jews were equal was illegal because the official line from the government is that they arent. Even though you truely believe that they are the government says that its fiction and thus you may not state your belief or risk jail (or worse). This is exactly what the Nazis did in WW2.

Yes, that's what the Nazis did and our government system will never let this happen again. Let me ask this then, don't you think the holocaust could have been prevented if Hitler's ideas were censored?

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Freedom of speech must provide for all ideas to be expressed freely regardless of what the majority thinks. Again, i find Zundel's thinking disgusting as I do this Tshirt, but what's even more disgusting is the call to ban this expression in a supposed free society. If you don't like the message, don't listen. Those who listen are already predisposed to this type of thought anyways.

Look, I'm all for freedom of speech but not when it violates equal rights and respect for life.