Where's that Arbiter guy when you need him? He has the answers to all of life's important questions.

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Robots, machines, mechanical beings
Automatic and synthetic, we have the means
To take control of this planet and the human race
With our electronic rhythms and the Armageddon Bass

yeah..i undertsand it well now...but i am having trouble linking it to the movie thats the thing.

vestal:
1. Roman Mythology. A vestal virgin.
2. A woman who is a virgin.

so i'm taking it to mean innocents

all in all i think it fits the movie absolutely perfectly, and i think it helps to think of it in religious terms to understand the poem

quote:

Happy is the blameless vestal's lot.

those who have done nothing have nothing to be afraid of (depending on your sect of christianity, can be true)

quote:

The world forgetting by the world forgot.

possbily commenting on the cyclical nature of forgetting?
at first we forget the first lesson we learned, then we forgot why we needed to learn that lesson in the first place
so the world forgets one thing, causing more forgetting and ignorance

quote:

The eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, each pray'r accepted, each wish resigned.

the last part seems to refer to eternal happiness (read:heaven) for those free of sin etc, and especially because i think those completely free of sin's only prayers and wishes would be to be admitted to heaven and saved by jesus
and if free of sin, of course those would be true

and now for the part connecting that to the movie
POSSIBLE SPOILERS!!!!
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k so we got the whole poem meaning basically: those free of sin and innocent and pure are happy, even sinners can forget their sins, but only those truly pure will achieve happiness, because sinners who forget their sins are still sinners at heart

so in the movie, lets just look at jim carrey and kate winslet's characters first, clementine and joel
so in the beginning of the time as we see it (not the way the movie presents it, cause that sure as hell isn't straight chronological), Joel's living with a woman we never see, Naomi
Naomi couldn't go to the party on the beach, which is where he met clementine. obviously their relationship isn't great, because we never see or really hear about her much
so joel is kinda cheating, i'm not quite clear if he really is, but thats something to keep in mind
note also that a major theme of joel's voiceovers from his journal, or just thoughts to himself, is envy
always commmenting on how 'he wishes he could be like everyone else and why does he fall in love with every girl that he makes eye contact'
and as for clementine, she's obviously impulsive, and possibly guilty of envy and/or anger
to her, when something goes wrong, she seems to turn to anger instead of forgiveness, which is why the whole business with laguna starts in the first place

so here we have to people that we can definately identify as non-pure souls, and they try to correct the past by forgetting it

quote:

Happy is the blameless vestal's lot. The world forgetting by the world forgot.

they have forgotten, as well as forgetting that they have forgotten, but are still not vestal or blameless (and definately not happy )

quote:

The eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, each pray'r accepted, each wish resigned.

all the things that joel and clementine strive for in life, they completely fail to achieve, no pray'rs answered or wishes resigned
also one thing that i'm still contemplating and thinking about is that right after the operations, while the patients mind is completely spotless, they do seem happy
clementine is surely happy after the operation when she meets elijah wood's character (check the scene where joel goes into barnes and nobles to give her the gift and she doesn't recognize him, she's definately happy)
but once that memory is there in your brain, eternal sunshine becomes impossible


yeah i know these thoughts aren't completely developed, but i'm still myself trying to work this out
lets here some more opinions, i like this thread

quote:

Originally posted by mezzir vestal: 1. Roman Mythology. A vestal virgin. 2. A woman who is a virgin. so i'm taking it to mean innocents all in all i think it fits the movie absolutely perfectly, and i think it helps to think of it in religious terms to understand the poem those who have done nothing have nothing to be afraid of (depending on your sect of christianity, can be true) possbily commenting on the cyclical nature of forgetting? at first we forget the first lesson we learned, then we forgot why we needed to learn that lesson in the first place so the world forgets one thing, causing more forgetting and ignorance the last part seems to refer to eternal happiness (read:heaven) for those free of sin etc, and especially because i think those completely free of sin's only prayers and wishes would be to be admitted to heaven and saved by jesus and if free of sin, of course those would be true and now for the part connecting that to the movie POSSIBLE SPOILERS!!!! . . . . . . . . . k so we got the whole poem meaning basically: those free of sin and innocent and pure are happy, even sinners can forget their sins, but only those truly pure will achieve happiness, because sinners who forget their sins are still sinners at heart so in the movie, lets just look at jim carrey and kate winslet's characters first, clementine and joel so in the beginning of the time as we see it (not the way the movie presents it, cause that sure as hell isn't straight chronological), Joel's living with a woman we never see, Naomi Naomi couldn't go to the party on the beach, which is where he met clementine. obviously their relationship isn't great, because we never see or really hear about her much so joel is kinda cheating, i'm not quite clear if he really is, but thats something to keep in mind note also that a major theme of joel's voiceovers from his journal, or just thoughts to himself, is envy always commmenting on how 'he wishes he could be like everyone else and why does he fall in love with every girl that he makes eye contact' and as for clementine, she's obviously impulsive, and possibly guilty of envy and/or anger to her, when something goes wrong, she seems to turn to anger instead of forgiveness, which is why the whole business with laguna starts in the first place so here we have to people that we can definately identify as non-pure souls, and they try to correct the past by forgetting it they have forgotten, as well as forgetting that they have forgotten, but are still not vestal or blameless (and definately not happy ) all the things that joel and clementine strive for in life, they completely fail to achieve, no pray'rs answered or wishes resigned also one thing that i'm still contemplating and thinking about is that right after the operations, while the patients mind is completely spotless, they do seem happy clementine is surely happy after the operation when she meets elijah wood's character (check the scene where joel goes into barnes and nobles to give her the gift and she doesn't recognize him, she's definately happy) but once that memory is there in your brain, eternal sunshine becomes impossible yeah i know these thoughts aren't completely developed, but i'm still myself trying to work this out lets here some more opinions, i like this thread

actually u r sorta right...i read more into the poem itself by alexander pope and it tells the story of 2 lovers who belonged to different churches or religion and due to thier differences they had to be seperated..now the poem is suppose to be a letter from one lover to his friend explaining that they seperated because of religon,lust and love was against religion and inorder to be pure with with pure souls and and minds that is so spotless that they shine, they must erase memories of love n lust, thats the only way to be pure to god and get rewarded and prayers answered...he also describes to his friend the lust n love to thier relationship...when the other lover interupts the letter being sent to her lovers friend,emotions in her wake up again after reading it in the letter.....

now our movie is sorta smiliar...the quote was used by kursten dunst to justify the erasing of memories and the benefit of it...however much like the poem, the main characters renew thier passion once again even after they tried to forget about each other. The movie shows how some memories such as love stay with us forever..

quote:

Originally posted by Radagast Where's that Arbiter guy when you need him? He has the answers to all of life's important questions.

Yeah but for this important question I didn't see the movie.

Vestal virgins were priestesses of some ancient Greek goddess (may have been Hera, though I'm not sure) who had to remain virgins in order to serve as priestesses... From memory this was enforced on pain of death. SO innocent they may have been, but the purity was artificailly enforced.

As for this poem, it seems to fit under the classical traditional romantic tragic poetry. With Eloisa attempting to cope with her woes. At the point of the poem quoted, she envies the vestal virgins, for never having loved, they do not feel the sorrow she does because of her memories of her previous love. This ties in with the movie, because the protagnists there also wish to erase their painful memories of a past relationship... However in the movie we learn (as Jim Carey's character does) that there is something of value in preserving those memories.

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What a pile of pretentious shite!!! The film was crap as well.