well considering you have to go out of your way to find the smoking patio/tent/whatever u want to call it whats the problem here? U can still go clubbing to your hearts content and never know the difference. You see, some of you no smoking nazis cant even comprimise. And the guy specifically said that if they had to ban smoking on all outdoor patios he would.

Sounds pretty draconian to me

^^^
You sure do have a funny definition of going out of your way, jay. As a smoker, if i get the craving to light up, i simply head to the door, tell the bouncer i'm going to step outside to have a smoke, and do so. Nothing really difficult about that. If, it's -40 outside, then i factor that into how badly i want to smoke and again make a desicion. The choice is always yours.

The article you are referring to seems to be more about pubs then clubs anyway. And if pubs are modifying their patio's to resemble closed spaces with just a solitary open wall at one end, then i can see why the smoke nazi's as you call them would have a problem.

Lets face it, the smoking bylaw makes sense, and it's working...so instead of trying to find loopholes, and bitching about it, lets all just grow up and start to make tough desicions.

___________________

"Hell is full of musical amateurs; music is the brandy of the damned."
~ George Bernard Shaw

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 well considering you have to go out of your way to find the smoking patio/tent/whatever u want to call it whats the problem here? U can still go clubbing to your hearts content and never know the difference. You see, some of you no smoking nazis cant even comprimise. And the guy specifically said that if they had to ban smoking on all outdoor patios he would. Sounds pretty draconian to me

I love how you pick and choose the quotes you use and ignore the context in which it was used.

Keep on crying.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 we are talking about the outdoors now thank you very much

It can hardly be considered outdoors when there are 3 walls, one entrance, and all of the air is being trapped in that space just like it does inside.

THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT.

^^^ I agree. Outdoors = outdoors...not 3 walls, a ceiling, and one open wall

However, if it's completely separate from the rest of the establishment, fine, then I really don't care...but the bar/club should NOT be allowed to serve in there (ie. staff shouldn't be allowed to serve patrons in the smoking area...if patrons want to bring their drinks in there, that's fine, as the point is to protect other patrons and staff from the smoke).

Jayx1...really...the argument has been argued...and making comparisons to smoking pot is just silly for a variety of reasons that I'm not going to rehash here (unless you really want to go through that again).

using words like "draconian" and "nazis" in this debate is entirely inappropriate...no one is being rounded up and gassed...they're being forced to be considerate of the health of non-smokers...but I know how you like trumpeting up your weak arguements with loaded words just to make them seem stronger

I fully support bars who wish to be allowed to maintain separately ventilated smoking areas, and to be allowed to permit smoking outdoors or on a patio...but looknig for "loopholes" with this bylaw? I have no sympathy for someone weaseling out of enforcing a clearly benficial bylaw.

The entertainment industry is not going to collapse under this bylaw...

Last edited by MarkT on Oct-06-2004 at 20:43

Meh I don't know if i agree with it but bars will adjust in toronto like they have in every other city in north america that has done it. The patio thing is dumb though, give it up already. Smiling might be the next thing to be banned indoors. I predict.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT using words like "draconian" and "nazis" in this debate is entirely inappropriate...no one is being rounded up and gassed...they're being forced to be considerate of the health of non-smokers...but I know how you like trumpeting up your weak arguements with loaded words just to make them seem stronger

LOL -- I agree completely. To hear jay whinning like a little girl about everything just makes me chuckle. Here you have a young, white male who's bitching about all the percieved injustices heaped upon him by this cruel, unjust world. Here's my advice, jay - take a trip outside the little bubble called Toronto and gain some real perspective. Maybe then you'll get a real understanding of what it means to lose your freedome, and what it means to be oppressed by a government. Till then, i suspect most of us on this forum will take your ramblings with a grain of salt.

PS. Or you can just ignore everything i said, and become a politican. When i think about it, it'd be far better then making sandwiches and reading scary newspaper articles on how shackled modern day society is becoming.

From what i gather you have all the nessasary attributes. A penchant for repeating yourself, a love for attention when you stand on the soap box and stir up societal issues, and finally the ability to speak volumes on subjects without any real resolution. If that ain't the makings of a politican then i don't know what is.

___________________

"Hell is full of musical amateurs; music is the brandy of the damned."
~ George Bernard Shaw

Last edited by Kytracid on Oct-06-2004 at 20:56

Even being the advid non-smoker that I am, this gets the from me...

[EDIT]
Ah hell....a big red X works too

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Kytracid It stops me from lighting up when i really don't need to, and as much as you want to beat your chest and say your freedome is being taken away, what you really fail to see jayx1 is your responsibility to the people who share the air around you.

no, it doesn't. I find myself being outside of the clubs on the patios far more often anyway now. It shouldn't be our responsibility for others around us when we're in open air, even with a wooded roof and an electrical heater above us. If people don't want to inhale smoke, stay inside...God knows you have a whole club in there to breathe our great, clean, tasty Ontario air, while we're crammed outside.

It all boils down to an eventual attempt to take away all smoker's rights, even IN open air. Within ten years, the only place you'll be able to smoke will be in your car or in your house.

___________________
"No offense, but you're stupid"

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 no, it doesn't. I find myself being outside of the clubs on the patios far more often anyway now.

You my friend are in serious need of a patch. LOL. To hear fellow smokers draw doomsday predictions of what it'll be like in 10 years when they won't be able to smoke anywhere except their cars or houses just makes me laugh. As someone who's been smoking for 5 years now, do you honestly think this is a good or bad thing ? I'm trying to quit smoking, so any help i can get is a good thing. If there are fewer places where i can smoke, then I can only see this as a good thing.

The type of resistence i find smokers giving to this law just makes me wonder about the power of nicotine and how it effects the brain. Forget about chronning out or getting sketchy on pills...put a smoker in a non smoking room and bare witness to the birth of the terrible cancer stick monster.




Give it up boys, it's a losing battle, and even as i go out to buy another pack at $7.75 -- i keep hoping that we don't ever win !

___________________

"Hell is full of musical amateurs; music is the brandy of the damned."
~ George Bernard Shaw

^^^ I don't need the patch at all. I smoke more when I'm at a bar or club because it's part of the enjoyment factor. I only go through 3 packs a week, if that.

I'm used to the outside smoking thing and I agree with it. The air inside a club is much nicer now (save the smoke machines), but if people don't like the smoke on the heated patios, don't go out there.

___________________
"No offense, but you're stupid"