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Dj Thy
Deckhead



Registered: May 2001
Location: Belgium, Earth

quote:
Originally posted by uxud
Wow, I was just wondering about this. Does recording at 48khz offer any significant benefit over 44.1khz if you're just exporting to mp3, and how much more CPU power does it use?


I'd say no. If there is any gain in quality, it's VERY minimal. 48 kHz was originally introduced to allow varispeeding 44.1 kHz recordings (varispeed is in fact nothing else than changing frequency). If you did that with a "normal" 44.1 kHz recording, you'd start having problems with aliasing. That's what 48 kHz was for, NOT for the mere gain in quality.

So for mp3 or cd, I wouldn't do the effort of switching to 48 kHz.

Now onto the question of superddman...

When we talk about working with 24 bit files, we mean working with files that have been RECORDED in 24 bit. Of course, for that you must have audio hardware that can handle that resolution, but nowadays those things are getting more common (of course, like Aaronoct said, there's still a difference between consumer gear and pro gear).

One difficult area for dithering has always been those internal engine resolutions of the audio programs. First a simple explanation why they work at such high resolutions internally. I'll explain it with a metaphor, so not to scare of most of you

Let's assume your audio level is represented by a money value of 1.0 dollar. Precision is one after the decimal (.1). Now let's say you want your audio level to be 1/4 of full scale. That would be 0.25 dollar. If you retain that .1 resolution, you'll have to round off. Your actual value would be 0.3 dollar. You see here that you already lost some information. And that only with a simple gain change. So, you can only guess how many info you lose with more difficult processes... It might not sound important to you like that, but don't forget a lot of micro information is described in those bits you lose, like reverb tails, spatial info and such.

Now if you take your 1.0$, and your sequencer says : well I see it as 1.000$. It's still one dollar, but with 0.001 resolution. If you would take the 1/4 level again, the result would be 0.250 And here you see you retain more info.

You'll ask, what's the point if you reduce bitdepth at the end anyway. You'll lose the info no matter what. Well, try it with simple calculations, and see what is the most precise result : losing a bit of information on every calculation, or losing a bit of information just on the very end. Consecutive losses will be worse.

A fairly easy way to prove this, is to use an editor that has a bitscope, like wavelab. Take a 16 bit file for example, and do something as easy as a gain change, and you'll see that the bitmeter suddenly shows you have more bits than the original 16.

The problem lies in the engine. A good professional program will work at a high internal bitdepth, but do nothing else. Some programs have the bad habit to work at a high internal resolution too, but dither down to the working bitdepth after each process again. And like we said, dither should only be done once, at the very end.

Old Post Oct-14-2004 11:30  Belgium
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superddman
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2003
Location:

thanks for that long reply.
So if I have my song complete and ready for rendering, I can just render it as 16bit using dithering?
OR
I have to first time redner it as 24 bit without dithering and then import this wave back into audio sequencer and then export it as 16bit with dithering?
Isn't the first process more logical?

Old Post Oct-16-2004 04:31  Canada
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Derivative
Bipolar Bear



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Dublin

it doesnt matter as long as dither is the final step. there would be no point in rendering to 24bit 96khz wav unless you want to compare it with the final dithered 16bit render.

Old Post Oct-16-2004 17:22  Ireland
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Dj Thy
Deckhead



Registered: May 2001
Location: Belgium, Earth

You can do it directly.

The example of keeping a file at high resolution is for example when you're going to an external mastering house.

It would be pointless to burn your song on a CD as audio for example (16 bit, 44.1 kHz). In that case it's better to render your file at the working resolution, and give that file to the mastering engineer (rarely do they accept the sequencer projects).

It's just when you are using intermediate steps : keep it as high as possible until the final render.

Old Post Oct-16-2004 17:29  Belgium
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superddman
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2003
Location:

so it would be a good idea to first render it as 24bit or even 32float without dithering, then import it into audio editor and then apply mastering plugins and then render it as 16bit with dithering?

Is it better to go with 32float or it won't make difference?

Old Post Oct-16-2004 21:17  Canada
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