quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange i see what you're saying and i think its a good point, but saying someone is brainwashed takes away responsibility from those that are "brainwashed" and places it on those that 'brainwashed'.

exactly! i dont really see why that is wrong tho.

quote:

people do terrible things, as they have for centuries, without having been brainwashed. lets place reponsibility on them and their actions, in addition to their leadership's actions.

well, im quite tired atm, but i cant come up with any examples, so please give me some where a people have done terrible things without beeing brainwashed.

when i think of it some more, brainwashed is a bad word since its so relative and sees everything out of our point of view. i would state that everyone is brainwashed, for example to say that it is wrong to behead someone is brainwashed.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew well, im quite tired atm, but i cant come up with any examples, so please give me some where a people have done terrible things without beeing brainwashed.

i'll give it a shot soon.

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quote:

Originally posted by Massive84 Bush murderd more childeren and womans than these douchebags, and last time i remember Bush is a Christian , so shall we blame religion for this war? Makes everything easy. Same goes for God? or not maybe..you tell me. I agree, this is really sad situation, but all this mess isn't their fault, but America's. You have reasons to support bombing civilians for lies and stupid reasons, and that’s your own right, and that goes the same for Al-Jazeera, maybe they trying to show the world something? like what a mess Iraq is and who's fault it is...we can't say that about Fox . Please understand, am in the same frequency as everyone, this is horrible, this women did nothing wrong, infact she only helped like you said, but going blaming things that have nothing to do with it, is just not right. oh well my 2 cents, this is the world we created, and i don't think we gonne see any changes for the next 30 years.

oh, right. your another one of those anti-war pacifists that wants the status quo back. sorry, dude.

the strong decision was made without you and your ilk.

"oh man that sucks she got kidnapped and murdered by homicidal maniacs. but wait! don't those same homicidal maniacs have a legitamate beef?...oh well i'll take the easy road and make myself feel better about this by blaming the third party"

nigga pleaze

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew so please give me some where a people have done terrible things without beeing brainwashed. when i think of it some more, brainwashed is a bad word since its so relative and sees everything out of our point of view. i would state that everyone is brainwashed, for example to say that it is wrong to behead someone is brainwashed.

you only need to look as far back as the last decade (1994) to the violence between the Tutsis and the Hutus, where some 800,000 Tutsis and a few Hutus were massacred, by Hutus.

It was so violent, that many described it as hell on earth. Neighbor attacked neighbor, people seeking refuge in churches were not spared and were slaughterd by machete, beheadings, lynchings, burning alive, and so on. It truly was hell on earth.

Historians, economists, journalists, and so forth have offered several different explanations for the massacres, but none that i know of included brainwashing. They cite other reasons, such as global economy, ethnic tensions, colonial history, and others.

Media, Propaganda and Rwanda

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Margaret Hassan captors threaten to hand her over to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi

The World Today - Wednesday, 3 November , 2004 12:31:00

Reporter: Michael Vincent


ELEANOR HALL: After holding Iraqi citizen and CARE Australia worker, Margaret Hassan for two weeks, her captors have now threatened to hand her over to al-Qaeda ally Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

The relatives of Mrs Hassan, who was born in Ireland, have issued an emotional plea for her release.

But as Michael Vincent reports the latest video was considered so disturbing that Al Jazeera chose not to show it in full.

MICHAEL VINCENT: Since her last hostage video some 10 days ago, nothing has been heard from Margaret Hassan.

Now her kidnappers have issued a new video. But Al Jazeera says it "will not air the video tape in full due to editorial and humanitarian reasons because of the state in which the hostage appears." The TV station did not elaborate further.

But the Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern says he's seen a transcript of the video and he found it, quote, "stressing".

He gave this statement broadcast on Irish TV, RTE, with Mrs Hassan's family alongside.

BERTIE AHERN: Since Margaret was abducted some two weeks ago, her husband and her family have endured enormous distress. I cannot imagine the trauma that Margaret herself has experienced.

MICHAEL VINCENT: In front of the Irish media, Mrs Hassan's sister, Deirdre Fitzsimons stepped forward to make a statement on behalf of the family.

DEIRDRE FITZSIMONS: We are the Irish family of Margaret Hassan, and we are pleading with you to set her free. We have listened to your demands and begged Tony Blair and the British Government to release the women prisoners and also not to move the troops, but we are Irish and we have no influence on the British Government.

MICHAEL VINCENT: The Government of Tony Blair has not made any comment on the latest video. Since Mrs Hassan's kidnapping they've repeated the same line: "we're doing all to help her".

And CARE Australia is also not commenting publicly today, except to issue this statement.

EXCERPT FROM CARE AUSTRALIA STATEMENT: In response to the latest video, Mrs Hassan's colleagues are profoundly distressed by her condition, and urge those holding her to release her without further harm.

Mrs Hassan is an Iraqi citizen who has dedicated her life to helping the poorest and most disadvantaged people in Iraq. We are encouraged by the repeated demonstrations of support shown by the people of Iraq.

We join with them in calling for her release so she is able to return to her husband, family and friends.

MICHAEL VINCENT: Her release may be sooner than expected according to Abdul Jabaar Nasser, the Editor of the Iraqi newspaper called Baghdad.

Mr Nasser, who is visiting Australia, says those holding Mrs Hassan are criminals who want money and he believes they will not kill her.

ABDUL JABAAR NASSER: Because her husband is Iraqi, I think she will be released.

MICHAEL VINCENT: You don't think the threats to kill her are true?

ABDUL JABAAR NASSER: No. There's not any reason to kill her.

MICHAEL VINCENT: How long do you think Margaret Hassan will be held for then?

ABDUL JABAAR NASSER: Maybe two months, because Margaret is a woman, so she needs many things more than any man who was hostage.

MICHAEL VINCENT: So you think they will only hold her for two months maximum?

ABDUL JABAAR NASSER: Maybe, maybe. I think that.

MICHAEL VINCENT: Is this because she's a woman they respect her more?

ABDUL JABAAR NASSER: Yeah.

MICHAEL VINCENT: In the meantime, the public pleas to Mrs Hassan's kidnappers continue.

Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern.

BERTIE AHERN: Margaret has no political associations. She represents no one except the vulnerable and the poor. Our quarrel, or your quarrel is not with Margaret. So I appeal to you on behalf of the Irish people, on behalf of our Irish family who are here with me today, to release Margaret and to allow her to return to her husband.

ELEANOR HALL: Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern speaking on Irish TV. Michael Vincent with that report.

link

>>Transcript in WMP

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quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo for a Muslem to kidnap and murder a woman during Ramadan (forget for a moment that she's spent three decades helping the most unfortunate of Iraqis) just goes to show the complete ignorance and malevolence of these particular douchebags. it's my understanding that a true man of Allah would never do something like this. where in the f**k is the outrage among the Islamic leadership of the region? why in the hell has Al-Jazeera gotten a pass for supporting crap like this?

What the hell are you talking about Al-Jazeera? Supporting this? What? Because they report on EXACTLY the same stuff we do? Al-Jazeera just happen to be (a fairly good) Muslim media organisation and because of that you automatically link them with extremism?! It is a shame there are people like you out there 5Qecho who know sod all about anything that goes on in the world and unfortunately we have one of the ****s in the white house as well...

So there's a video of a woman getting shot. But the authorities are not sure if it's Margaret Hassan. But Tony Blair has already sent his condelences and sympathy to the Hassan family. Nothing is certain right now though.

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Al-Jazeera spokesman Jihad Ballout said the station was not initially sure of its authenticity.

“We invited British diplomatic officials to come and view it in Doha, Qatar, with the aim of helping us ascertain whether it was Mrs Hassan or not,” he said.

“It’s now likely that the image depicts Mrs Hassan,” he said.

No group has claimed responsibility for her kidnapping or murder.

>>full article

So hopefully it won't be her.

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