quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Do I sense an air of bitterness? Freedom of religion does not mean the same thing as freedom from religion.

As a conservative you should know more than anyone:

There is no such thing as "freedom to," there is only "freedom from."

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter As a conservative you should know more than anyone: There is no such thing as "freedom to," there is only "freedom from."

Care to elaborate?

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Care to elaborate?

It's inherent to the nature of "free"-dom. If you are free of something, that means you do not have it or are unaffected by it. To be free is to be unencumbered. Freedom can not be an entitlement or a right, for it truly is nothing more than a state of independence from some particular controlling influence.

I would have thought that those who believe in small government and laissez-faire economics would understand most easily what genuine freedom is.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter I would have thought that those who believe in small government and laissez-faire economics would understand most easily what genuine freedom is.

That branch of conservatism died on 9/12. Now it's a curious hodge podge of trade protectionism, and bigger government in the face of smaller revenues.

Or, I'm beginning think that conservatives never actually were for smaller government and laissez-faire economics. Sounds more and more like it was just a tagline they liked to use when a democrat is in the white house. Because I haven't changed my views and yet I guess I went from being a "conservative" to a "liberal" in 2000 or 2001.

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Retro ...

in case anyone cared...

your angelic Bush
so religious... the pope said him several times he was against the war in Iraq ! but your president didn't care at all...


this argument said, i don't f*cking care about bush or the pope, but that should affect you religious freaks

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Take the blue m&ms, take the red m&ms.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider That branch of conservatism died on 9/12. Now it's a curious hodge podge of trade protectionism, and bigger government in the face of smaller revenues. Or, I'm beginning think that conservatives never actually were for smaller government and laissez-faire economics. Sounds more and more like it was just a tagline they liked to use when a democrat is in the white house. Because I haven't changed my views and yet I guess I went from being a "conservative" to a "liberal" in 2000 or 2001.

It seems to be a problem no matter which party is in the white house. Both parties no longer embrace the concept of freedom, but rather have their particular view of how all people ought to live and try to force it on everyone using whatever power they can acquire. The Republicans seem worse in this respect now, but it may be only because they have such unchecked power.

The fact that such a large portion of the population has radically shifted views without even acknowledging it says something powerful to me: it says that people are not basing their political views on sound philosophy, facts, or reason, but on blind faith in a political party. When democracy has reached that point, it's difficult for me to surmise how to view American democracy as anything but a failure.

It entertains me that there is attempt to persuade our country that our country will be more united than ever after this election, yet the two halves of the voting populace couldn't be more divided.

tecnolover, you are an abomination to Christianity. Why don't you go to Iraq and join the Crusades there? After all, isn't that the moral thing to do?

On Religion & Polotics

I think it's great that one has something that they can hold strong to their heart and believe in. Whichever make's you happy and a stronger person, I think that's great. I myself, have belief's.

Yet, I also believe that it's wrong to take what you hold close to your heart, in any political decisions, any way, any form. I know that everyone has their own agenda's, some more than other's, yet this is two paths that I don't believ should cross. Even being the person I am. I feel this way because there are those that, no matter what, may not, and in some cases, do not believe in what another does.

Those that made their choice for a candidate soely upon morality issue's, and beliefs, that's great. In democracy everybody vote's for what they believe in. Yet, I do think that their are other issue's, besides beliefs, that are important and should go into that decision making as well, especially when voting someone into office. A sentate, governer, president, these all affect you.

One's performance should not only be able to give their agenda, they should be able to protect you. Jobs, security, etc. These are all major issues that don't always come upon with morality.

In cases, from what I've seen, morality is not the only major issue in any campain.

Thanks for reading.

Rodas

How ironic. CNN has nearly the same headline running as the subject of this post. http://www.cnn.com/
Darn i missed the Pres. Bush's speach.

Just want to say to all liberals in here and everywhere in USA that I sincerely hope we will all try to get along after this. On this issue I agree with Mr. Kerry whole-heartedly. I am also glad that Mr. Kerry conceded like a gentleman and didn't turn this into an ugly series of court battles. I respect and admire him for this. Yes, this was a rough election and yes there is a religious split here in the USA but we are all family and one nation. I hope that we all can shake hands like good sportsmen and continue to be friends and work together, support our re-elected president and support our fellow citizens who are fighting abroad. We are the strongest nation on earth and perhaps only we can destroy ourselves. Peace.

quote:

Originally posted by tecnolover I hope that we all can shake hands like good sportsmen and continue to be friends and work together, support our re-elected president and support our fellow citizens who are fighting abroad. We are the strongest nation on earth and perhaps only we can destroy ourselves. Peace.

Sportsmanship is for sports; this is politics - it's serious, not a game. I'll shake hands with conservatives and support the president when - and only when - they cease all efforts to unjustly infringe upon my freedom and the freedom of others at home and abroad.

quote:

Originally posted by tecnolover It's a great day for America. America has spoken!!

exactly man, AMERICA has spoken....
sad we KNOW that